Are you breaking these rules regarding music in your show

How to properly use music and sound effects in your show and what impact it actually has on your audience. Plus we talk about Dynamo news, Fool Us News, Shawn Farquhar's Hidden Wonders, Kyle and Mistie's secret weapon and more!

TOPICS COVERED: Dynamo, Magic As Art, Magic as Entertainment, Reddit Magic, Shawn Farquhar, Hidden Wonders, Kyle & Mistie, Brad Ross, Dean Hankey, Michael Eaton, It Factor Live, Music in Magic, Magician Tables

Hosts Ryan Joyce & Graeme Reed

Listen to the Podcast Here

Audio Transcript For the Hearing Impaired

Ryan Joyce: Hello and welcome to this episode of Magicians Talking Magic. I'm thrilled that you're here. We're thrilled you're here. The universe is thrilled you are --- I don't know where I'm going. I just want to say I was just on Michael Close's podcast Conversations With Close. I had a wonderful chat with Michael and it was just an honor to be on his podcast, so make sure to go and check that out. I'm so excited to have Michael at the OWOW Magic Festival. It's really going to be a great week and it was a wonderful conversation. So go ahead and subscribe to Michael's newsletter. He sends such valuable information out. Go check that out. He's got some great guests, incredible guests on his podcast. So a honor to be part. We covered a bunch of magic on this episode and really some great topics that I think you're gonna enjoy if you don't enjoy them.

Well, you got to let us know what you want to hear. So leave comments and messages or DMS. We really do hope you come up to the Magic Festival. It's going to be an exciting week of just invaluable experiences with magicians that really know magic and how to entertain. So, uh, if you're there for entertainment, you are going to be amazed. You're there to learn. You are going to be equally amazed. So lots to see and do at the OWOW Magic Festival,, I think that's about it. Oh, and uh, if you case you haven't heard the great news in the world of magic and that is that Fool Us has been renewed! I was not only chatting with Michael directly at to hear the news, but uh, I also got the alumni from, from the Fools Us producers. So the little UpToDate information and exciting news that we can now all share with the world is Penn & Teller Fool Us is renewed. How awesome is that? So make sure to tune in and watch and support all of the magicians. Well, let's dive into this episode of Magicians Talking.

Graeme Reed: Magic. Hello everybody. Welcome. Come to episode 12 of magician's talking magic. My name is Graemazing.

Ryan Joyce: And my name is Ryan Joyce. There's lots of magic news to talk about. Super pumped to, to chat. There's a exciting stuff, lots of business discussions that we're going to talk about today because I've got questions for you. I want to run by you man. There's lots of lots to go. Where should we start? What do you think?

Graeme Reed: Lots of stuff to discuss. Um, in mainstream magic news, if we're looking worldwide, Dynamo is coming back to TV in 2020. Uh, it sounds like he has a new project that has been Greenlight called project seven as is. Uh, oddly enough. That will be a three part mini series. I think it's going to be on sky one and streaming on now TV. That's all in the UK. So we'll find it, you know, in our own magical ways on the YouTube or however you find your magic specials illegally these days.

Ryan Joyce: I think that's going to start cranking down too. We'll see what YouTube does cause cause it's coming out of the European union and the that side of the world. We might not see this special after all prepare or YouTube is changing big time. Uh, as it's going to go to the creator, it's going to go back to the dark tape trading days. They're stepping up their game big time in that cause they that big judgment that that cracked down over in the EU. So, well this is really great news about dynamo because there was all those, you know, those years he had the illness with Crohn's disease. So I it was good to see that he's, he's coming back to the, to the, to the tubes.

Graeme Reed: Yeah. And I think even in like episode one or two we mentioned that he is going to appear on maybe Britain's Got Talent next season as a possible judge.

It was a rumor. Who knows if it's true and if you haven't heard those episodes, what are you doing? Go back and listen to all the episodes guys. Come on. them and share them. That's right. Yeah.

Ryan Joyce: That's great. I, you'll also hear me say that I, because he came on television when I was on the road all the time, so I still have not seen a full dynamo episode. I remember there was um, that big controversy the last time about, uh, he was levitating between two things and there was a lot of press about that.

Graeme Reed: I think it got caught like people saw like how it worked and they took pictures about it and.

That's what it was. That's a, that's a big challenge with, with you. You're setting such large on large scale. He did stuff like walking across the teams river maybe not fully across cause then like uh, police come by and calling. You should check your dynamo videos online. They were pretty entertaining. It's kinda like watching David Blaine Criss Angel style, but in the UK. Yeah, it's really fun. Okay.

Ryan Joyce: Well which one let us know in the comments or however you're listening. I'd love to know which one you were recommended, which special I should start with, cause I'll, I'll do that. I'll watch the one that every, like the number one that people watch for is, I'll start with that one. That'll be first. And then you know, we should do a little bit of a summary on it. I mean, do you, I might have to have a little bit of a time buffer on this because things are a little hectic with festival. I will absolutely do this.

Graeme Reed: Maybe after festival craziness as a new podcast idea of what we should do is like we'll review these magic specials, so if people are interested in that, They'd like us to do that. Maybe talk old magic specials. We'll start with a Dynamo one and go from there. Based on this episode right now.

Ryan Joyce: Well this is going to spark a whole a future pole of some nature because we should, it would be fun to see what people want to want is like how far back we should go. Are we good? Should we do a Copperfield one? Should we do as a Blackstone's senior bit? You know, like what can we, can we get our hands on? World's world's greatest magic. Yeah, the world's greatest magic. Yeah, but he got that voice. There was such a perfect fit for magic. Oh boy. I'm talking like Vegas magicians I see on here online that Dan Sperry is issuing at a huge thank you for all the support. So I'm pretty sure he raised that small goal that he had to try and cause the, I mean think of all the equipment, everything he lost, what he was trying to raise your shame mogul then the situation.

Graeme Reed: It's good to see that the magic community has come together and probably a lot of his fans and everything like that. So to support him and all his lost and stolen goods and everything like that, that's really good to see that that is a positive a thing in Dan's life right now with, that's true. I sit on the last podcast, I just can't wait to see what he artistically does from this. Right. Cause that'll write little spawn. Definitely sponsor and creativity's for someone like Dan, like it's just a creative guy. So, so yeah, you can't wait to see what he does and you know, we couldn't help but to pair the connections here in my own mind, Dan has done very well for himself because he's, he's really established at very distinct image and sort of niche for himself. Yeah. He's one of those unique character magicians.

Kind of like a Rudy Coby or lab man. Um, or now like Chrissa Hendricks and Lucy darling, like all these people that are coming out cool characters. Yeah. Um, speaking of kind of like there's a S a splurge of people hosting their own magic shows and lots of cool magic happening all over. At least I know for sure in North America. I think we're, I'm pretty sure worldwide, but it's really common now to see magicians host and for while their own shows, uh, on Facebook, I've been seeing so much stuff from local Canadian out in Vancouver, Sean farter quar, uh, is hosting this show called hidden wonders, which is such a cool idea. Yeah. We have talked about something like doing this similar before, but it's so awesome to see it in real, in real life. Someone doing it. We had been chatting about it a couple of years ago, which means in the grand spectrum, everything, John's broadly had been talking about this for twice as long before that.

It just goes to show. Yeah. Everybody always thinks they have original ideas. There's often someone also right behind them working on something else. So he's, yeah, he's hopefully he's killing it over there. Again, I've been a little bit out of the loop on all of it, but I sent Laurie a message actually just, uh, just today to say that I, I see that things went well and I were saying this, so, Oh, that's so cool though. He is rented out basically an a spot in Chinatown and he has set it up so it looks like a fake tailor. And in the front window you see his iconic purple jacket cause he doesn't really wear that outfit anymore. Um, and uh, so, and then you enter the fake tailor if you got a ticket to the show and then now you're in the small tiny show room, uh, which is the hidden wonders show. And I thought, I don't how many people that seats it from the pitch. It looks like maybe max 30, which was an awesome intimate crowd. So you'd with magic and I mean like, you know what the show is going to be just incredible. Like those people would have experienced

one of the best, whatever the duration is, 45 minutes or an hour shows imaginable. Like, I mean, what, what an amazing thing that he's done and I hope it, I hope it does well. Like I hope he continues to do it and as they w like, especially in light of doing the festival myself, I, I know what it means when someone says something and you want to see other people succeed at the same time. You want to see it happen. So

to put on something so ambitious, Alison, Oh, I'm uh, talking about ambitious people. I basically, literally before we recorded this podcast, I was doing a quick web webinar thing. I'm part of this party business think tank, which is for like children entertainers. It's run by Mitch seltzers, like a social media superstar in superstar. And then he had a Brad Ross who you're familiar with. Yeah, sure. Host this one of a kind convention called factor live. I think it only has like 50 people that can attend it or something like that. Yup, yup. I've been twice. Yeah. It's tons of free. You're a speaker there, right? Yes. Yeah. Both times president voted me out too.

Ryan Joyce: To be, there should be the first time it was so coincidental because I was on my way to Hong Kong and so it was lit. It was just like worked out. I could be there two days on my way over to Hong Kong. It worked out so perfectly. It's really valuable. Jam packed, you know, series of days for magicians that are learning magic. It's also, there's so many great people out there doing stuff like this. Dean hanky does some really great work out there. Uh, you know, helping to educate magicians in such a way. So there's, this is the same kind of thing that Brad does, is offers, you know, information for, for magicians who are serious full time kind of, or wanting to grow their businesses. Right. Or active or they want to be involved in their business rather than it just be something that's passive and just happens to them. If you want to take charge of your business, there's people out there like, like Brad and Dean and Michael Eaton and all these other people's that happened.

Graeme Reed: Yeah. I think that they all have the same philosophy of taking your hobby job and making it a business, which is a great, a great way to look at it.

Ryan Joyce: Yeah. The, the work that they do is, I mean, not only applied in their own businesses, but I mean they keep up with all the current stuff that's working so that w w like we don't have to write and they interpret right. How that all works and how it applies to magicians. So, you know, they do offer, obviously all of them offer products and services and, and w that's value. That's what, that's what you're getting from those, you know, their efforts is, is all of all of that customization and tailoring and, and preparation and just makes it so easy, especially for magicians that like I, I, I don't know how well I know how you approach your branding in your business, you or approach it the same way I do because I learned from you and it's like this, this of like is make cut, copy and paste as much as possible. And so, you know, the more you can create as quickly as you can in your marketing stuff is drag and drop as simple as possible and yet as efficient as possible can means you spend more time getting it out than making it and and these guys, that's what they do a lot of is these like templates and formulas in such that you can follow that really just take the guesswork out of it. And that's really valuable for people that want to make more money in their business and need guidance and need and need help.

Graeme Reed: And I also ask you to yep. Yeah. A lot of it's too geared towards asking like bigger questions than uh, what do you do? I'm just an amazing magician, which is kind of really vague. Like how do you get bigger than that? So you can charge more, get booked more and get booked all the time. Become a specialist in your field and all sorts of things. So much information there is jam packed and you're right, there are so many resources for this. We talk a lot about it too here on the podcast as well. Like magicians. Masterclass has all kinds of this information as well. It's just so neat that there's a mini community of sharing that cause it factor live kind of brings in all those guys like Dean and all these people. It's really fascinating. Sure. It has met some really great people down there as well as it's great time. So, and I'm not affiliated with like this. Isn't that weird? Just know honesty. If there's, if magicians listening, wanting to improve their business, there's, there's places that you they should be putting their attention to. Yeah. Because I think the, the purpose of this podcast is as a resource for other magicians, uh, to get better and for all of us to, to grow. And we know that is by doing it, uh, by sharing information and not like just keeping to yourself and things like that. If only we had magic jokes,

Ryan Joyce: then we could really, you know, just make it the best podcast ever. Magic comedy business. It'd be like a buffet of everything just mixed into one. It's like a power breakfast, lunch blender, mix of magic. Just start your week with magicians talking magic. That's what I would do.

Graeme Reed: Um, let's talk about Reddit topic, Reddit topic that for those lists, I don't know if this translates over the microphone. It sounds like the transition, that's the, yeah, yeah, yeah. Does your room, that sounds, read this, do this then because sound is a super important, yeah. Important and

Ryan Joyce: part of everything. Communicating in general and we don't really focus as sometimes, well, here's how I always heard sound and nobody pays attention. If you have a bad sound or a good sound system, they only put the legs conditions. If you have a bad sound system, what was that? What was yours? Nope. Nobody likes magician. Everybody here I like, yeah. I can't ever do like didn't warm up. I can't even, I'm a failure. I can't do it on demand. I'm uh, yeah, but that's the, that's the thing is, um, is, is sounds, um, uh, sound really creates a mood. It establishes stuff where it's like a, it's like a non verbal communication that you can use on demand to create an emotion. So I use sound and specifically music under underlying music bed in like pretty much as much as my talking bits as possible.

Even in the podcast when I'm editing the podcast, I'm like, how can I extend this music without it sounding too royalty free for as a, because it's just, everything's just a little bit better when there's a little underlying tone, unless you're in an unfocused environment. Right. But nobody's editor's magic show to be, to, yeah. To be listening to a podcast at the same time as watching a magic show while editing a word document will do it. Like they're there to see a magic show. So the music that you select around that can really build that story and really, really build that, that emotion that supports or deters, you know, you don't want to have this really sexy mid metal song where there's language in it and there's clearly, you know, establishing in a very wrong motive to what your dragged to establish. But you know, you just gotta be cautious.

Don't, don't use a piece of music because it sounds good. It was, is the point because you've got to really understand that if there's lyrics in it, you gotta pay attention with actually being said as well. If that plays in your show, there's, there's levels of detail, um, that are, are, can be avoided. But one thing you really got to pay attention to nowadays is his lyrics. You can't offend people, right? You can't, you can't dance in those, those words. And if I was going to go a little bit further, I would say you really gotta do it royalty free. That would be my little take on that. The music that I choose for my own show, I buy it. It's cheap enough. Audio I think 29 bucks audio jungle or premium beat. That's a good one. But you can find all these websites.

If you search a stock music. There's also in comp tech that is a good website that you can find free music. Some of it sends a little free stocky, but some of it's pretty great for some simple background beats that are just great for storytelling. YouTube creator, if you could just be in the creator studio, they've got a library of royalty free stuff that you can download right there for free and I won't demonetize you if you're running YouTube. So and pre-show music, like when you're doing music before the show, it's pretty important because it's kind of setting the tone of yeah. For what's gonna happen and kind of the mood of every, so you want to get the right music for that. That's really the thing. Like it can be anything as long as it doesn't have something offensive in it. Yeah, yeah. It really can be anything that suits you and your personality, but it just can't be offensive.

And by offensive I also mean for the ears. Like you have to be S uh, paying attention to your audience. Like I wouldn't play on a cruise ship the same music that I would play on tour for example, because the demographic is just skewed 20 years a little bit ahead. So I know that my selection, I don't want people to start right off the bat, come into a theater, sit down, hear music that that drives him crazy. And then the guy comes out that presumably they assume PR like they don't know who chose the music but that person is the one that'll take the blame for it emotionally. So keep it standard. And my biggest pet peeve when I asked the audio guys to, you know, just to have play a pre show selection there, their choice is so wildly different from what my choice would be that I don't even offer it anymore.

I pray I walk in with 30, 35 minutes ready to go because their, their music is nine times out of 10 is either too soft and mellow background music that they use in corporate gigs and stuff. For the coffee socials and things, you know, they've got it on their system is template corporate. Um, not, not like pre show build anticipation, excitement and energy, which is what I wanna do. So I specifically sit down and I will put those pieces of music together in an order that builds, including like the structure that you would structure a story. It actually goes down a little bit right towards the build. I don't know if that does anything but I followed what you know, instead of reinventing the wheel, I just follow what was working. So, um, and then that carries me in my version of my show. It carries me right up into the introduction.

So when we're on the ship at six 30 and at eight 30, they press play knowing that the show regardless starts at nine o'clock. It because it is all tethered into my, my whole opening and such. But music, I am super, I go to feel like I ramble. Clearly you can establish that, but just by listening to me now, but I rambled about this for hours because it is so important just to take your show to the next level without like nobody could really point to anything. They would just interpret it internally as being a better production if there's music and all you had to do was make a couple of choices in advance and figure a way of playing it. So that was my little ramble on music. I hope not. I hope it was relevant until you guys, do you ever do moments in your show where there's no music and it would just be silent?

You bet. Oh yes, absolutely. And his PR strategically timed of course. And I have a lot of moments without music as well. Um, I'm don't have something on all the time, but the silence is, well, I have a buddy of mine said the, the, the key, the one thing that makes hip hop so difference is this silence between the notes. And I thought that was what was so fascinating. Uh, it just, he was able to articulate that so clearly. And so ever since then I've sort of looked at it in that light is, it's just, it's if you par it properly, place your music and non-music in your silence and your timing, it can just add to a better quality production I guess. Yeah. I know. Um, Wayne Hutchen when he performs, he uses a whole lot of silence. He goes, he likes those. Yeah. He lets those moments just kinda go slow and, and he lets the quiet awkwardness build just to that and then he'll do his thing. I imagine style. It can be so powerful, man. I, this isn't magic, but if you haven't seen it, and I know this is a reference that I is this cachet a Michael Jackson performing live and he literally, I think it's 12 and a half or 13 seconds. It's just stops and it's a Rina full of probably 90,000 people or something. Right. It sends shivers down your spine. You see, I'm properly placed. Silence is

undefined: powerful, period.

Ryan Joyce: for sure. So yeah. Good. You find ways to add a little silence in your show. And if I were to make a recommendation, probably put it towards the end, not towards the beginning, but I don't know your context.

is that just like, would you suggest in the show flow of maybe excitement in music? You would start, um, kind of like in the middle, calm and excited and build it up and then bring it all the way down and then bill it all up at the end again. Yeah. With your show opening needs to be high energy. Remove all thought from it. Just whatever your show opening is, you have to invoke some kind of anticipation. You've got to build some kind of excitement. You've got to build some kind of curiosity. You these, these are the really the three prominent ones that you're trying to focus on. In my, in my honest opinion, especially in magic, curiosity's a wonderful thing. Excitement is just like the generic that's easy to do with music and such. So that one's kinda built in. Um, and then like, of course, all the, the, the wonder and the mystery and the, and the curiosity side of it. Um, those, you've got to really put those, those into it for the magic show. Don't walk out and it'd be just like dud, right? Uh, because they're there to be lifted up. They're there to be pumped up. Um, and so if, if you don't provoke any of those, those things right off the bat, they're not going to stick with you for a full show. You really

Graeme Reed: had the first opening is solid. And when I say like, when I ramble about this, I mean, I, you look at the way Darren Brown walks out, he's not walking out and be like, everybody right? But he walks out and instantly you, you're instantly evoked with curiosity by either a script item enhanced with music or silence, like, you know, but you, you have to instill something right off the bat because you've got 30 seconds. And for most of us, the easiest and the best way to get and capture that imagination is with music. Okay. That's my two things. What do you think about it all? I, that's purely my opinion. No, I think that's great. I think that's great. I never, to be honest, I'm putting more and more thought in music in my show all the time. Cause like as we introduce always at the start of the podcast, I'm more of a new pro to magic and doing one more stage shows your life or so you have something so much more information.

But um, yeah, no I like, I like starting off strong and I have a certain piece of music that I play that comes out that kind of sets the tone of what I'm going to do and it plays loud and I go quickly into the crowd. Interactive. I have a paper bag, we've talked about this with on the podcast too, but it's upside down and I ask people, what's in the paper bag? What do you think's in the paper bag? What do you think's in the paper bag? And I produce a beat that's been upside down the pier bag the whole time. Uh, but I usually, what I mostly do in the past have just played kind of background loops til my show that it's just kind of set the tone and the mystery of the whole thing. I do want to get in the habit though of having bring more cute music and doing a remote system so that, you know, in the effect Etsy you can hit a crescendo and your music or when you call people up from the audience, you can have the music lift a little more without having the audio person there and things like that.

So I'd really, I read that's the next step that I want to take in my professional shows for sharing because all it's doing is amplifying. I mean, if you, so you, let's say you've got this note in your, your, your show at this moment in your show and it always gets an applause. Uh, without music. It'll, it'll be that. It'll be that of always be that. But if you put in just a little bit of music at the right timing, it's gonna. It's just gonna double that energy, double that energy in the room. And like music alone can be the difference at the end between a standing ovation or not. I mean truly, I mean these are, the music has so much power to it and if we just wanted to leverage the theatrical side, the artistic side of magic, then um, that's something to be considered. What's the difference between magic and or and magic entertainment Graham? Oh my gosh. So this is the Radek topic of the week. This, we are scrolling through the roof flipping through the Reddits. Yes. And uh, when is magic art versus entered or when his magic art versus entertainment, the spread of the accommodator and the question I think or something. But I'm super, that's a bag of worms right there. I think as such a, I don't know. Oh my gosh. One would also wonder, I think magic is, are just too general.

Ryan Joyce: Also, I guess our doesn't need to have a money exchange to it. Entertainment typically does or we,

Graeme Reed: well I think magic can be art, right? There's also magicians that they're there just by routines or rip other routines off. And those aren't artful magicians. But if you're out there being a magician and you're kind of scripting your own work, um, and coming at it in your own style and approach, then yeah, you're doing art right there. That's what you do. That's what that is. And emotion people are thinking about it. That's good. I remember what we talked about at off Mike real quick because we were kind of talking about, Oh, what are we going to do on episode 12, this prestigious episode of magician psyche magic. And uh, we were I or essentially said, well I think competition ex that's straight up art. That's the most artful form of magic I think because those people are just competing at magic to be the best at like a specific style and format and it is totally created artfully and not the highest classification of

Ryan Joyce: the art that you're describing, which I agree with is also the one that's judged.

Graeme Reed: Totally. I guess that's absolutely true, right? For sure. And then not

Ryan Joyce: my opinion. You can't be judged and BR at the same time, art is so subjective. I mean if we're puring the art of the art, I mean the artists like yeah. I don't know. What do you think?

Graeme Reed: Totally. I guess, yeah, it makes it the most complicated question cause there are so many. Yeah I know like where this is going to, this is a nowhere question cause basically entertainments are and it's all energy. It's all the same. It's just a big looping. I think it goes back to what we said earlier, the if you are someone that's just stealing hack lines and jokes and you're just being like a performer, a magician in that sense that you just have a, you know, turnkey birthday party magician or something like that. Stealing bits. Yeah. Then a sure you are, I understand entertainment and not art, but for the most part everyone's, most, most people are,

Ryan Joyce: are full entertainment. I think. Yeah, that's true. And, and that, that, that's a topic that we should chat about in a future episode, um, is the whole, when we start off, we tend to start with copying. And at some point we understand that there's that you shouldn't do that. And hopefully everyone listening has had that epiphany in their own mind. Right. And it started out down the the road of their own creative juices because that's really where fulfillment comes from. Like I'm sure I if you just, if you're just doing this to make money as a hack kind of a thing, like you know out in being banged down and you're not worried about the product. Yeah. There's no convincing that that person in my opinion. But there is there, you know, put, put some effort and some Polish and some thought into making it. You can that prop be like tweaked customized slightly. Can it be changed completely to fit more you like just the, that kind of stuff, that effort.

Graeme Reed: Yeah. Can we change the entire script and the pattern lines so that they match maybe my character, maybe this trick that I've been doing forever, it doesn't even fit with my who like what I am trying to be or anything like that. So why do I still do this thing? It doesn't fit with me. Oh, it's cause it's, it got hilarious laughs on TV and it's a true fire bit. But that's also not my bit. I think too, we're in that time like we were talking about with hidden wonders and the secret shows and Toronto magic company and shows all in the States. There's all these self run shows just like comedians. So the more and more of that happening, the community is just going to recognize people stealing other people's bits and it puts more pressure on magicians to create and write more original material.

So I think right now it's, other than that, that acceptance, you can still use the same props but just change the script. But I think we're going to really get into a point where everyone's going to be developing their own material with their own self built props. Or perhaps you've never seen a magic, which will be so cool to see. Like I was talking about Rubik's cube magic earlier today, uh, with Alicia and I was saying how weird I think it is that you see all these mental lists or like I'm going to read your mind and things and then you pull out a Rubik's cube like, Hey guys, I have my Bob bit here and watch me play it real fast. It's like, why are we doing that? Why are we doing that? We were just doing mystical mind reading things and now you're going to play a game real fast. I get that. That's a skill level. But does that fit with you being a powerful mind reader, Peru or whatever you're trying to demonstrate? I'm not sure. I don't know. You just toys and games you're just really good at, I'll play with action figures on stage if you want. I'm good at that.

Ryan Joyce: Yeah, and I, I for sure is, so let me ask is the Rubik's cube, it was huge when I w like in the 80s right? And so I, I know it's huge now. Is it like defining a generation huge, big. Does it become such a social icon? Like for me, I feel the same way. Someone brings it up, be like, this doesn't really feel, it feels more like we're going to play a game than in a puzzle. Uh, but I think, but if like I see them everywhere.

Graeme Reed: Right. I think while they're popular, they're popular again. I mean something like a yo-yo I think came in, went out of style and hasn't come back in style. But Rubik's cubes are exciting again, I think part with these magic tricks too. And it's been on America's got talent, people doing speed solves and it's mixed in with memory games and memory games are really popular right now and mathematics. Right, right. You

Ryan Joyce: the secret show your show, the, somebody brought up a kid that was maybe 11 and he, I mean new solvent behind his back. If you handed it to him, it gave him enough time. And so that was kind of the first moment I realized. They're like, there's a tire generation out there that doesn't. So he probably related to that trick completely differently

Graeme Reed: than I do. Totally. I guess I wonder how, I dunno, I want to be on that cusp or not on the outside, but don't, but don't you still see like the connotation of holding a Rubix cube? Like it gives you the idea that it's a game or a puzzle and it's not like I'm just like, I get that, you know, like that's where it's so subjective. I agree with you. I know I get a deck of cards for games and stuff, but it's more traditionally rec and I get the, it's maybe a new prop. It's still, to me it seems very gamey. I know in magic and to me, I don't know, it just doesn't fit as well. Was everybody listening? Think honestly. What do you guys think guys and girls those know what's,

Ryan Joyce: what's your opinion? I don't find my, I don't, I'll just say this way. I'm personally not adding a Rubik's cube bit in my show now. So in 180 years when they find a transcript of the podcast, are they going to be like, Oh, that AVS he didn't add a Rubik's cube to his magic show. You know? I don't know.

Graeme Reed: I think for me, I guess if the story fits for why you have a cube and your show totally works, but I don't have a story as to why I would have a Rubik's cube. I don't either. And trillion and all that stuff, I don't have that. So there's no reason for me to carry one that's, I don't,

Ryan Joyce: that's why John Ciena is my magic wand. There you go. See there it's, there it is. That's why it's all character. So whatever your niche is,

Graeme Reed: uh, so talking kind of like stagecraft cause we were talking music and sound. Um, but one of those other tiny elements that kinda I think makes or breaks it too because you can have a really cluttered stage with so much junk. And I know there's, I know one magician, I think it's even like his style, the great zucchini is a kid's magician, New York. He literally has a folded table, lays all his tricks out on it and does this magic show like that. And I've seen other magicians do this kind of like, I call it almost like a, like what are you, a market vendor or something? I don't know. I dunno. But um, everyone, I know a lot of magicians are addicted to tables and different ways to set up their props on stage. Whether you have the cooler roll line, you know, show show table, that's like a suitcase to, maybe you can hide birds in it. Maybe you can hide your sound system. Uh, some people I go cheat El cheapo, I have simple fold-out tables that I'll just cover with a cloth maybe or something. Or sometimes not. Sometimes they even just try to hide it. Or lately I've been just using a club comedy stool and I throw a case on top, but I also don't have to travel as far as a lot of people. Like if you're a cruise ship entertainer, you're a worldwide traveler. So that's a different scenario. Um,

Ryan Joyce: you're worried suddenly run into a new new kind of thing, I guess, right? Yup. I personally just a use the, like I tried to stretch the show so that was just the comedian's stool or the stool doesn't have to be the comedians. Sometimes I never give it to ya bastards. But the any stool will work.

Graeme Reed: It doesn't have to be just the comedians and, but honestly that's what I've done just because I wanted to, to avoid you having something else in the suitcase to just plain and simple. I did travel with one forever and that was the reason why I was like, nah, I'm done with this. And actually so funny cause Missy, Kyle and Missy, Missy just send me a picture and they've got a table that they're there. I guess people have loved it. So they're actually selling it now, but it's what they use in their setup. Um, so it's, it's a really great portable, lightweight kind of solution. And the picture she sent me was amazing. So that's, I don't even think they have like a page for it or anything yet, but it looked really, really slick. But it folds servers, not it folds, but it takes apart into nothing.

So for pros that are out there listening, that's an option. I'm sure you'll have to look it up cause I don't even think I saw a picture of this and almost looks at your to pack flatter for sure. Cause that's the key. Um, but it almost looked like kind of like a trade show table where you'd have two shelves or something and then a banner or fabric would just wrap around the front, which is a great solution. Simple solution. But it looks like it's the way it packs up is and packs. It unfolds solid. I remember there was a shot that he was like, like laying over it. Well it goes, that's great. And they're workers. So what they use, I would use, you know, that kind of thing. They're really, they know their stuff. So is this, is this a first, is this an exclusive hot tip release on this new table?

Must be, it's like a secret. I, yeah, I know they have been selling because magic live, I think they were, they were selling what ones they had made. So, okay, cool. Oh, so does that magic live then? Nice. Yes, I don't even, I don't even, yeah, these two I don't like, they'll have a page up, it'll come up, you'll check their site out. I think that's where the, I imagine where they would post it. Magic life. That's, um, kind limits the magic convention, isn't it? It's a magic convention. Magic. Live magic live. Sure is a speeding. What's like there's a coming at like, I don't know, like coming in. I remember off the top of my head there's some sort of convention or wonder week. It's not hidden week. Oh, far choirs thing. It's like, um, Oh, I can, hello. Ah, hi. Ohio's. Yeah. No, no, no, that's no, uh, w uh, no. We could wonder. No, that couldn't be it. No, that's not what, that's terrible. Eco. Oh wait, that's the, I will coming out of the festival. Ontario week under. Yes. Yeah. That's coming up in, well, I started to have those days away when, this is 20 days away from this as out released. But if you're listening to this, who knows when it's when it's wrong, but it's going to be funny. Yeah. To this morning, bright and early. I had a meeting

Ryan Joyce: with the, like the downtown businesses and and core just exciting awareness. Yeah, it was great. It was a nice way to sort of be one-on-one with the people that are seeing the people that come to the area. So it was a, it was a great meeting and the mayor was there and it was just so great way to start to lay that next layer of awareness because we're, there's so many layers. Of course I can tell you that because there are under my eyes in bags, there's at least nine layers of awareness under there. I see a cause and I'll, I'm gonna I'll share all this with everybody as they learn it too, especially as we wrap up. But right now I'm content driven. So, just as a real quick whole how I'm, I'm marketing, this is the same way I would market it if I was going to do it with my own shows is create content.

And the more people that get eyeballs on that content drives the cost down for my ad spend because I'm targeting people that watched my content and watched enough of it to matter. So the more people that watch and are invested in something that I put out then you know, in the ether are more likely to watch another piece. So a, they call that remarketing and it's available on Google and on Facebook and remarketing and retargeting. And that's what I'm, that's the basis of it. I, I have an ad or or four or so coming out in, in local newspapers and such like that just to satisfy all of the masses. But content is, is really the strategy for the festival. So there's going to be lots to learn out there. Uh, because I mean, I've been kind of learning over the last year building up a couple of my own separate blogs and businesses.

One is a local, um, it just videos produce locally that I produce just as a capture, kind of provide value without ever asking for anything and building a database that I can communicate with. So we've got, you know, several databases that I'm, I'm marketing these people for the Oh wow festival that's at something that everybody should think about as well as in the newsletter, creating their own, you know, list as it were, and trying to find a way to, to, to provide value with those people. I have to tell you, it's hard if as a magician it's easier as a magic festival, but that stuff's hard. As a magician, how do you write a newsletter and provide value every month for people? Right? So these are, I mean these are things that when we apply it to the festival, these are things that we need to do.

We need to and should be playing in our own businesses. And also I'll, I'll happily share the lessons that I learned from it at the end. Um, cause I, there's lots to see and do, but we've got lots of, uh, incredible people coming. We've, we've gone on and on and on about that over the last a couple of weeks. But truly I cannot wait to spend the weekend with these people that are coming here. We've got some really amazing talents and some really fun events and the shows are going to be phenomenal. The theater is is just a gem. So w when you come to the theater, the first thing you're greeted with is like this wall of doors and they're all wooden and such and when you open it up you, it's exactly what you'd expect at like a vintage. Now, I don't know, 1945 kind of, but our deco E style, the checkered floor, it's super super. They just renovated it. So it's modern. It's not a bad seat in the house. 255 seats. It's no balcony or anything or anything. One level. The front row is literally like touchable from the stage. It's just ideal working situation for our performers and our guests and our visitors and for the audience, like you couldn't ask for a better venue. You've been there a ton of times. Would you agree with that?

Graeme Reed: It is exactly how you described. It's what you expect. If you're looking, thinking of an a kind of really old heritage theater in a small town, like you're not thinking multiple levels. Yep. One main level and that's, but it's, and you get to experience these shows with the community and other magicians. So you, and then get this. If you're coming for the convention portion, uh, you also get to then hear all these acts, talk about their acts and things like that and different fun topics that you have planned as well. So this is an exciting thing and this is in Fergus, so you're not just in Ohio or downtown, wherever at a hotel. And then you go to the lobby and you know, everyone's just kind of hotel stinky. You get to walk around and experience downtown Fergus, which is dressed up for monster month.

So there's cool art installations featuring cool Halloween experiences, amazing stuff going on, lots of cool restaurants by, it's not just fast food junky places. These are real local restaurants that highlight the heritage of the area as well with craft beers and local craft foods. It's going to be totally amazing experience, not just from a festival stand blade, but a little late kind of mini vacation idea as well. You go into Ferguson, Ontario and we've got a contest for free registration. Right? When is, so what this contest, when does this contest wrap up? Where if you're listening to this right now and it's Friday, you have till 1159 because it's October 4th at 1159 is the last date. And I just got the package of, of stuff from, from Lee Asher that he, any man, what a generous guy. W a so this is really gonna be an incredible, incredible price pack cause we've got Lee's incredible gifts which include everything from uh, his, it's got like 48 playing cards.

It's got Lee Asher's twist. Yep. It's got his three fly poker chip routine. It's signed. It's got like over a hundred dollars worth of value of Lee Asher, uh, collectible graph here. Super generous of him. And so that his contest just keeps getting bigger. Yup. It started off as just this one book and now it is true. It's huge. It's going to be great. So there's lots and lots of reasons to come to the festival in addition, but there's lots of reasons to do it quick cause you could win all that because the other prizes in that give away. Of course we're, we're going to give away Michael closes masterclass, uh, and we're going to give away, Oh sorry. Not we are. Paul has heard about the contest and this guy has got the biggest heart in magic. He decided to contribute not only just an incredible product but an incredible product that will make any magician that gets their hands on it will make them money.

And it's that build your custom DVD for your back of room sales, locker room sales. That's huge. That's, that's a huge, that's a game changer for magicians who are already doing shows. What one thing, how do you make, how do you make more money, make more money at the shows you're already making already doing. Yeah. Right. So incredible stuff. I know you have to use register and so we're going to draw the one of the registrants you have. It could be you. And now all of this stuff, and by the way, there's only 50 registers is what we're capping it out. So your chances are great. Yeah. Super intimate magic convention festival happening in the amazing pitcher S town of a LoRa Fergus, Ontario. Yup. That sounds very good. Ontario, they're like, besides if it's Fergus, Ontario, yeah, yeah, yeah. We wanted to keep the registration load as well because we didn't want there be an unbalance of audiences, uh, for the art guests.

Like we really wanted to, instead of it being 255 magicians for example, we wanted to make sure that also a nice balance. And when you have those big convention holes, sometimes too, if you, if the guests don't have somewhere to go, you have a back of the room just filled with chatty magicians that people that clearly don't want to be listening to whatever, which is very rude. So this is a super friendly, all inclusive. Yup. Magic convention.

Ryan Joyce: And that means absolutely, every body gets this really great experience. Like couldn't, you just can't, you can't duplicate it. Once you see it, you'll understand fully. And there's lots of lots of visuals. What where you should go as the only place you get, you know, tickets in convention registration. If you can't make the shows and you want to come to the events, there is an option for that as well. It's all on online is where you can get all that and login. We kept the details off the main page just so we don't confuse the public. And that's as easy as it gets. Really. It's gonna be a blast. And there's only, I mean, well, uh, I don't know how to tie up the full, pardon me? I don't have the final totals, but we are over half full so you should probably act fast. Uh, we've got four weeks left. Well not even festival. Wow.

Graeme Reed: Yeah. And if you liked this podcast, share it with your friends. If you liked the business tips that we're talking about, if you want more information about the things we've talked about is to go more in depth on some of these topics. Maybe something that we talked about in a previous episode. Shoot us a message somehow by it. Twitter, Instagram, uh, so many ways to get in touch with us, comment on these posts, and we appreciate the feedback from Holly. You guys all the time. Everybody that listens to this podcast,.

Ryan Joyce: Let me know what Darren Brown episode I should watch and we'll see you on the.

Graeme Reed: You meant Dynamo.

Ryan Joyce: Oh, that would, that was, wow. That was just a total Freudian slip, because I so want to see Darren Brown's new show,.

Right? Secret.

Oh, that was, wow. Of course, I met Dynamo. Forgive me. I totally want to see his new show in. Oh, Christine have sent me a picture. She's seen it twice. Oh, wow. Really? New York.

Oh, that's cool. Wow. Awesome.

Well, thank you for listening to this episode. My name is Ryan Joyce.

Graeme Reed: My name is Graemazing.

Ryan Joyce: This has been Magician's Talking Magic Episode 12. Tadoozle

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