Ep 26 - Chewbacca's Unwritten Rules of Magic

Ep 26 - Chewbacca's Unwritten Rules of Magic

Updated: Jan 18

In this episode, hosts Ryan Joyce and Graeme Reed talk about Magic Gone Wrong Reviews, Penn on Tim Ferriss Podcast, Shin Lim and Colin Cloud Reddit reviews (and controversy.) The unwritten rules of magic, plus Star Wars Deck and more!


Episode 26

Magicians Talking Magic Podcast

Hosts Ryan Joyce & Graeme Reed


Listen to the Podcast Here:

In this episode:


Magic Gone Wrong Review

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2020/jan/09/magic-goes-wrong-review-penn-teller-mischief-theatre-vaudeville-london


Play that Goes Wrong Tony Awards Clip



Penn on Tim Ferris podcast: https://tim.blog/2020/01/09/penn-jillette/

Vanish Magazine Special Edition - Knife Throwing

What's the best Card's across routine you've ever seen?

A review of Shin Lim & Colin McLeod

- Reddit Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Magic/comments/eo5go3/shin_lim_colin_cloud_limitless_minireview/

- Controversy: doing P&T opener

- Penn's remarks:


Business: Unwritten rules in magic

Michael Close: Ethics Question

- Conversations with Close Podcast ( https://anchor.fm/michaelclose )

- Do onto others as you want them to do to you

Masterclass changes coming soon!

Follow us on Instagram: instagram @magicianstalkingmagic



Audio Transcript For the Hearing Impaired


Ryan Joyce: Welcome to Magicians Talking Magic, wherever you're listening to this ever, wherever you are in the world. Thank you so much for being here. My name is Ryan Joyce. I am a full time magician for the last 20 years. And on top of that gig, I am also a facial tissue tester. I'm a sensitive person, especially my nose. I test faithful tissue. You're an FTT. Yep. You bet ya. And this is, my name is grim mazing and I am also a professional magician. And besides that, this will sound a little bit silly, but believe it or not, I am a rug Tamer. That's what we call it in the biz. A rug, Tamar, years ago, a couple of years ago, bumped into the world renowned, famous magician, Eugene burger. And I notice, have you ever noticed what he used to perform his magic on?


Graemazing: Okay,


Ryan Joyce: his beard.


Graeme Reed: But uh, besides his, besides his beard, he, uh, he would perform, he always used these incredible mats, these incredible mans with tassels and everything. And I asked him, man, what, what is? And it's a, it is a rug for a doll house. So at that moment in time, my hobby slash side hustle instantaneously became rug taming for doll houses. I come up with the patterns, I come up with the designs, I stitched them together, I put on those little tassels, I put on a little unit. Like just getting all the lint of my closeup pad makes me feel like a rug Tamer and it really bugs me cause I'm really sensitive so I have to, and then I smell it, smell it, get all up in it and rub it in my nose anyways. Cause I'm a facial tissue tester. I have to use a rake. Actually I use a little a desk rake to get all the lint off of my rug. Oh, those are good back scratchers. Do.


Yeah. Yup. Or Hey, I heard rumors, rumors, rumors that a, there's a bonus episode coming out. I think there's a, uh, like for, um, are you talking about Scott Wells podcast? He's got a big bonus episode coming out. Ah, Nope. Nope, Nope. That's not, but that, is that a thing? No, I dunno. I thought that's why I say it. Uh, is it a the discourse and magic I they have a bonus episode coming in seven. No, I had no, I don't think that's, is that happening? Is the magician's podcast coming back? Are they doing a bonus episode? Are they coming back with a book? No. No. I don't think that's happening either. Is I tricks bringing back a podcast that I don't know if they had, are they going to disappoint you? It's my favorite pro wrestling podcast with Conrad Thompson. Are they doing it? Going to have to be us. We've got a bonus episode and here's a little preview. That's awesome. Right?


undefined: I mean who doesn't want to listen to all that and we're going to talk about it on the bonus episode coming out in some special day to be in the future.


Ryan Joyce: Yeah. Bonus episode. This is the first bonus app. Really? It'll be episode 27 from MTM. Did you hear that? That just exited. I just had something exit my throat like a demon. I had a little demon eggs too. Yeah. I don't know if it came across, but it was the sparkle that would be, it was some of those jelly beans some last time. And I need to, do you have some extra facial tissues that I can just work these up into? I definitely do. Here's a couple for you here. Let me just grab some, there you go. I feel like if this was a Marco Tempest bit, I would throw them through the phone and then you would get them on the other side. Yep. But then they be, do you want to see some magic and, but these ones are hilarious. This are test or these are hilariously tiny tissues now though on my end. Yeah. That regular size. Yep. And if it was like a Copperfield bit,


undefined: there'd be really, really, really romantic music playing and, and, yup. Yeah.


Ryan Joyce: So what's new with you? Do you just came back, you were sailing on the seven seas, like a pirate,


undefined: uh,


Ryan Joyce: and you did some shows on the, on the ships, how we did shows. Oh gosh. Well,


undefined: um, the shows, Oh, the shows are awesome. I actually, this was one of those times where it was three really, really, really, really awesome shows. Um, and that means that the audience was awesome. And like it's, it's a truth statement. Like th the audience gives you good gold. They're usually, like, if you're in two shows, it's usually the third one is going to be good. But with hip, no, I am always worried extra hard because sometimes the magic show goes over well cause the audience really resonates with it. And then like the hip, no, just doesn't jive with them. So I'll do two killer magic shows and then end on a bull, which is just a really terrible way to end em. But this time it was just so much freaking fun. I'm not even kidding you. The audience was just so lovely and they were so, Oh, anything that happened was just awesome. So standing O's on all of them. I, and I just, it was a new cruise director and a new for me and new team and everything, so that, it was just really nice to have a great moment three times. Um, the travel home was, uh, was just a wonderful balance of all of that joy. Um, which is why I just am so dead on the inside. But that's the travel lifestyle


Ryan Joyce: that's part of the ships, right? That's part of it I guess.


undefined: Yeah, that the travel is just not enjoyable at all. There's nothing about it that is ever like at the end of it you've been like, wow, that was a really great vacation and I'm just so glad it $18 for those bag of peanuts. You know, like I've gotten to the point now where, because I'm also veggies vegetarian and I have like food restrictions and stuff and I just don't also want to eat garbage and that's something as a facial tissue test or I'm just very sensitive. So I always um, eat wisely. And my bill for like a salad is like, I just get up there and I'm like, before the total, I'm just, I'm, I'm guessing ridiculous numbers to them now just to make it a game and make it fun for me. Was that like 115, you know, good. All of this as a salad and a like a water. Yeah. And, and sometimes they giggle and sometimes they're just, most times they're just miserable. They're just, they're the same amount of dead inside and they're equally dead because they've had some jerk. Have some snarky comment about price every time.


Ryan Joyce: Yeah. Can you make the bill disappear? Exactly. Don't you just hate comments like that,


undefined: that in the ma, like are you at that point? Is that just me? Am I the only corrupt magician on the planet that evaporated completely and turned into like acid every time you hear one bird?


Ryan Joyce: I think, I think we all don't enjoy those comments, but I think what the idea that we should do is, since we know it's going to happen, be prepared for it and converted into a magic trick or something or somehow make it an enjoyable experience. Those same, can you make my husband or wife to spirit or you made the bill disappear, all the same kind of things, right? Yeah. Or have you, have you seen that Shan lamb that, that Shan lamb guy from the television, have you seen him? Yeah. Yep. Although that's a new question. That's so weird because he used to always be Copperfield or wouldn't really have a show in Vegas and all this stuff. But now it's, have you seen the sh


undefined: the, it is nice to have diversity, isn't it? My God, that's everything else. Say I gotta be honest. I was just dreaded the Chris angel days. What was the era of where people were like, have you seen that guy Chris angel? Right. And like every below for me, the wall, that was like the dying carcass kind of phase.


Ryan Joyce: It's actually kind of neat because we have been scoping out, um, the champions, America's got talent champions a little bit. Just a little bit. Yes.


undefined: I enjoyed our little expedition of modern magic and


Ryan Joyce: it's neat to see the variety, the scope, however, and performs and presents themselves now. Right? There's like a good mix there. You all have a, one of those were spectacular, but that's, it was kinda neat to see that one mixed in like maybe 10 years ago. I don't know though. Still there's, we'll talk. You gotta check that out. Bonus app bonus.


undefined: Speaking of magic on wrong, I want to chat about this because this is something that I'd really like to see. This looks awesome. Yup. Yup. And this is a magic review or a magic, uh, right up in the guardian, which ms Sherton is a UK, um, review tabloid style magazine is what I kind of get this as, but I'm like, I could be wrong and it was a write up of a magic gone wrong, which looks awesome in my eyes and I'm a big fan of the other show. Um, which is the play that goes wrong. I had never even heard of this, so I have to take us a little back to New York city when I was in, I don't even remember why I was there, but with, um, Peter Minnie and, um, my buddy Tim and uh, and fems and friend family and friends and such.


And, and so Peter was adamant about seeing the show. And I, I rarely get a chance to leak, even immerse myself in anything like that. So I'm just happy to go see whatever kind of a guy. So I, we went and man, this is honestly one of the funniest shows I've ever seen and one of the best shows. And as a magician, as a, like a theater guy as a producing, uh, and writer, I just really admired every element of this show. And I can understand it certainly wouldn't be for everybody, but it was just everything failure and catastrophe and just very British. UK I'm sure is the origins because it was British comedy is how we would label that. I'm sure. Um, that's a fair definition. And so this is a takeoff of that. And we've known about this. This is not new because this is basically the creation of Penn and teller, or at least they've got their stamp of approval on this. I don't know how do you know any of that?


Ryan Joyce: They direct, I think they helped direct and helped create their big part of it. And I know Penn has been going out there a bunch for some of the theater dates. Uh, I don't know what capacity he talks with a lot of it on his podcast, so you can hear a lot of it. Um, Penn Sunday school, if you guys don't check that out, which is an amazing podcast. Um, but it looks like you're in the picture there. This is one of their illusions, isn't it? Isn't this a classic, uh, Penn and teller illusion and the article picture? I believe it is. It's their blade of death, right?


undefined: Yes. That's what I believe. And so the, the writeup is, is positive. The overall outcome of the review was positive and we'll leave a link for that in the podcast page was going to be a magic desk masterclass.com/podcast. This is episode 26. Um, and so the, here's the, I wanted to read this little outtake, uh, of that article. Um, and here it is. It's a good definition of what the show is about. The gag is that the acts are all lame. More rabbit in headlights in rabbit, out of the hat. A Daredevil. The blade is forever himself in injure. Okay, I'll read this after. Okay. I'll read it and post, I'll read the last one. Okay. So, and so despite satellite linkups with David Copperfield and very amusingly, Darren Brown, the T Ellie of the funds raised refuses to rise. So you can get the, like the whole idea of the, the writing is very esoteric and such.


But yeah, the, the end result is that they do like it. I, the one statement that I thought was really I enjoyed a lot was the idea of I can taste people's first names was being the mentalist. It's kind of his power. I thought that was really funny. That made me laugh. Just reading their review. So I think, yeah, the Sydney, so Austin, Austin CV, cause it just seems like it's a total punch and then magic phase. But I think it'd be the, probably one of the best magic shows to go see. Yeah, I agree with you. Um, I'm just, would be walking in with a different mindset, seeing that one and the, the, the play that goes wrong with had no magic in it whatsoever. And I think there's a, there's actually a call back. They, even in the article, there's a, the attic falls and this is a moment in the, the first in the play that goes wrong that the addict just collapses and everybody fault.


And so I'm, I'm assuming that this is just a clever callback, this one that ties back to the other one. I don't know much about the play that goes wrong, but what's kind of like, what's kind of the Lusa? Is it just like the stage direction goes wrong? Sets are breaking down, actors are forgetting lines. So that the idea or I, well, you know what, my memory is just terrible for details and stuff like that for the plot. So I would have to go back in the vault, but it is just ultimately a, yeah, there's a, there's a, uh, a dinner party and someone ends up dead and there's just all sorts of


antique surrounded and it's just total hilarity. And in the end it's got, it's cleans up. It's just fun. It's just super fun. And in fact, they did a little, if I can find the scene, that's how Peter sent it to me. There was a little worthy clip that was on the Tony awards. So, uh, okay. I'll leave that in the show notes too, so you can see the original. And if you like that, I'm sure this is also something you would like. Um, so are you putting, sorry, are you putting, was adding it to and I, that's okay for the, I was, I wasn't sure if you're going to pick it up. Yeah. DOE. Uh, uh, okay. So this is all a, um, do pick it up, Tony. Yes, sir. Tony just here. It's fine. Yeah, go ahead. Uh, so talking, um, Penn and teller, like that's a great clip by the way. Great clip. But talking Penn and teller who are involved with the magic on wrong Penn was just on the Tim Ferriss podcast, which is a pretty intuitive, it would very interesting podcast, right? It was, I loved it. You're more into Tim Ferriss than I am, but Tim, he's like one of those, he's like, yeah, he's a mushroom coffee, cold water therapy kind of, yeah. Meditation kind of guy. I a modern


Ryan Joyce: hipster with a Leatherman and uh, yeah. And a keyboard. Yep. So he had pen on there cause they were talking. Um, I've only actually listened to half of this. I'm still catching up on it, but I've listened to a very interesting portion of it cause I think they're going to go more into his weight loss and everything and as you need. Yeah. Tim is known for, he's a body hacker is basically how they define them so that they got to come in at that mindset. But truthfully now he's podcast is number three. I just, I think of all of them. So wow. He's just broadened out completely to basic like I'm a betterment of yourself philosophy and ultimately how you can do that with, I know he's had David Blaine on there. Yeah, he's, yup. Yeah, that's right. I think I've listened to that one actually.


So it's this a pen one I enjoyed immensely because I've also read Penn's book. I'm a like a food foodie I guess in there. So I, and a guy, this lost a bunch of weight on my own. Like I lost a hundred pounds. So it's always, once you're a fat guy, you're going to always affect I feel. Um, and so that's, I have his book writer like within reach, that one. It was, it was a good, good read and he's such a great writer. Anyways, I read or anything pen writes because it's enjoyable. But he had, and we were talking about this just before we recorded, um, about what was the interesting part to both of us and we both said the same thing and that was the fact that he journals every single day. Yeah, I love that. And in depth very in depth checking of the podcast just for that.


Yeah. So he says and what he'll do to, so he just real quick, he will journal the conversations he had that day real quick. Just brief notes, a kind of loose things that went on that day and everything like that. But then he'll also review, because he's been doing this since he was 30. That's when he said he started doing it because he wanted to remember everything. He will look back at 10 years ago, five years ago, when a year ago to see what was going on at that same day. And he said you'll find weird, interesting parallels. It's so wild. Yeah. And Oh boy, the emotional journey, I'm sure that it adds like, cause there would be good ones and bad ones and it was, it's, I, I've been journaling like on and off, more off than on for my entire life. Like I'll, I'll have written stuff down since I was a young kid for sure.


As soon as I could write. I know I will have been, how about you? I have notebooks of magic tricks and ideas that I've written out and especially when I was working, um, before being a, I'm a rug Tamer and before being a professional magician doing graphics all the time, I always had notebooks of ideas of all my shows and, and trick ideas and thoughts cause I couldn't go anywhere and work on them like I can now. So I'd always have to write down the ideas all the time and kind of sketch them out. So I have tons and tons of sketchbooks, those little field notebooks, all sorts of things like that. But now that I'm at home all the time working on both rug taming and magic, I actually just, I have an RA ever get fleas? No, there's no fleas, so I have to keep, make sure that I tame the rugs in a separate part of the house.


It's in the West wing. Separate from where all the animals live because we have all those rescue animals at home. So we gotta make sure there's no fleas in these rags. So you just wear a flea color? I wear a flea collar while I make them. Yep. Come in the house. Got to wear one. You have to, it's like a wristband in order to get into the club. Yeah. Actually it is a wristband. It is a wristband. You wear it on your wrist and it's one of those snap ones, like from the 90s it's very easy and handy and we also ask you to put yourself on an a baggy and we keep it by the front door. Super clean. Yeah. We like to stay clean. We like to stay present when we're in the house, when we're retaining rugs and all that sort of stuff.


And Penn needs pretty clean. No on his fancy new diet he talks about that talks about how much food he consumes and why he hates eating at restaurants. Yeah. And he doesn't eat a ton of grapefruits now. I think so. Isn't that what he does? Eat salads. Yeah, I can relate to that. But he's so strict compared to, it's funny cause if you, I remember first listening to Penn Sunday school and this would have been years ago when I was driving, when I first really got into podcast, cause Alicia lived three hours away. Um, she went so we would drive like long distance. And so I was listening to podcasts and I started getting a Pence podcast cause it was really long. It was great. And at the time he was all into bacon and donut parties. That's what even, he was always talking about bacon and donuts.


And that was all he talked about all the time was just bacon and donuts. And now on his podcast, he always talks about how he's got to have the grapefruit ready to go. He'll eat like three, three grapefruits or like a huge bowl of blueberries. And it's so funny that it's just a complete difference, but that's really good for him. And it's good for her. Kind of be selfish on the inside because I just admire the fact that he's championing health so much because I really feel like everyone, I attempt to champion that for like regret it. And then, so I don't know, I don't have the courage often at the time how important I really think it is. But I really do. It's so, uh, w it's good to hear him. Yeah. Be so blunt. And he's, he is blunt and I like Tim Ferriss is thinking and I don't know, the other guy follows Dave Asprey.


So if anybody else's listening that enjoys Penn's podcasts, there's another, and actually lacquer out there, the last couple of pens, podcasts have been hilarious because they've been doing the M Piff and friends shows. I gotta listen. So they Piff took over the podcast live and they did like Piff and friends episode where they just recorded in the dressing room with a bunch like Matt King and Matt Donnelly and yeah. So it's been a really fun, cause it's been kind of more loosey goosey than his usual pie. It's really, but it's podcasts always great. Gotta make sure you check out pendants Sunday school, which I think is one of the top podcasts too, besides Tim Ferriss and like the Joe Rogan of course. Absolutely. Who doesn't listen to all of these or at least listen to the clips on YouTube. Oh everyone hears one of these things every now and then. Yep. And this is all free content, right? I mean there's so much free content out there, including this podcast and the bonus episode that is coming out so soon. But on top of that vanish magazine, Oh my gosh. Slipped out another free when? When does, when does sell, if you still know Paul Romani, editor, director, producer, layout artist, everything, publisher, everything. Rumors about Paul that I can't talk about. Is this about tissues?


No, actually I will have to cut that just in case. I'm sorry. No, I will have to, cause I thought maybe I could, but by the time we edited as too soon, we added to anyway. Okay. Where were we? The new, so we don't know how he's done this, but Paul has released a bonus, a special edition of vantage magazine. Like he just came out with this month Spanish magazine and boom. Here's another free vantage magazine. This one is a little special. It is specific to a danger festival, right? It is. I think any prior festival danger, danger fast. So, which I guess you know what, there is a lot of magicians that are into stuff like this. So if you are into a knife, throwing art, combat technique, martial art, this is like the hub. I guess that's what it seems like by reading the magazine.


This is danger fast or you got to go, they also have a really cool logo. So if you're into this, that aspect of magic, which we will also talk about even more on the bonus episode that we can't stop talking about this episode. Uh, we'll talk a little bit more about danger on that one too, but I can't believe he did it again. He did it again. Another full on magazine from Paul and I don't know if you noticed the rebel snaps for Paul Romana on top of this. He also just released a full book on standup magic, right to inspiration. He's such a hard worker. I really want to, we want to be like you Paul. We do. And you know what? He had one of the best, like one of the best magical acts I saw last year. The whole chaplain. What a lovely guy. Unbelievable. Dribble snaps. One more time. Make sure to support Ivantage magazine. Yeah, go check out your man. Check it out. We're trying to share


undefined: that news. What else is in the news? I was flipping through. Well you go ahead. What? You were flipping through Reddit, you were flipping through Reddit. I was. What did you find on Reddit? Well, I wasn't sure if we were going to talk about the best cards across routine or the other thing. Talk about the other thing first, then we'll do the cards across your team. Okay. Because the other thing actually fits in with what we've already been talking about. Penn and teller and all this stuff. Okay. Okay. Well I was flipping through the Reddits and uh, I went down and just seeing which was more popular of the week. And I read the one about the shin Lim CLA. I'm gonna call them colon colon. It's a, it's called shitless. It just slips through your like a cloud. You don't even feel it mad. Uh, just it Sarah, there's a class you got to show me a little league gotta just didn't limit and it just flies right through your colon shitless.


Yeah, they're, they're a big seller. You know those extra cushions you get at the theater goer. Oh my gosh. But you saw this guy, the stains built in, but they look like clouds. So someone on, Oh my God, someone just FYI, I don't put those anywhere near my face because a facial tissue test or I have to keep your far away just so, but you don't go for the candy after you sat on the seat cushion. Uh, the candy, Oh, the one the, what do you mean there's a seat cushion with the chocolate almond that goes into the chocolate covered while our chocolate covered seat covers. Those are a different story and you can get those at a episode 23 or shit, christian.com not shitless. Right. Um, anyways, this, this was an interesting review because it was pretty flat out honest. So yeah, summary of it was that the show was good.


The show is great. Even I believe it was how they would put an explanation point on that and saying that, you know what shin Lim does, he does really great. And, and Colin MacLeod was pretty much the big star of the whole show. And, and then the basically, um, exposes this idea why I wasn't aware of that. They were doing the same openers, Palin, Penn and teller. And they're both on, you know, in Vegas on the same, yeah, the same strip. So what was the opener? You know the name of it? It is love ritual by Woody Aragon and you can find it on his penguin live a lecture and it's in a book and I imagine he's taught at many other places as well. And a lot of people do the trick now. It's pretty common. It's like it's M a I would compare it to, it's like today's, I don't know what the trick is called when you put your arms out and you cross


Ryan Joyce: them over and then you re ask the audience to cross their arms over and then you can unknot your AMS, but they can't, do you know what that's called? I don't, neither do I. I wish I had a good answer. I don't know what that's called, but I bet um, max Maven knows what that's called. I bet she does. Yeah. And I bet he knows where. That's only know that answer. If you have a widow's peak, would you? Yeah. Would you say a copper field popularized that routine with the nodding of the arms? Um, some might say he ruined it for everybody else.


Um, so, so I think the same thing is now true with Penn and teller. And Penn actually talks about this on an episode of his podcast and the in the links, you're going to throw this in the lengths, right? This, uh, clip. Yeah, absolutely. But basically I heard this episode a while ago, he talks about how it's not their trick totally fine for someone else to do the trick, but it's kind of an unwritten rule in magic. Then maybe say someone just down the road is doing the trick. You don't do the trick and it's not even in a, in a, this in particular isn't even in the standpoint of ethics of like, well, he's taken my bit. It's not really that. It's more as the other guys are already doing it. You don't want to dilute the whole thing.


Yeah. This is one of those weird ones, isn't it? It is one of those weird ones, but it's also, um, I think Penn also talks about a story when they were working on a bit for TV and Copperfield is working on a bit for TV, but they were doing them separately and then they talk to each other. And then Penn and teller founded that Copperfield was going to do a similar bit. So they scrapped their whole bit, I think. I'm pretty sure that might be wrong. So don't, don't quote me on that. I think there's something like that though. But they do talk about how you could see that being like depends. Very ethical. He's very straight line. So it's a common thing in magic that we'll see someone go on TV and then we all mimic and do the same stuff. Yes. And like we've all been copied, like, or charging some different territory and it's doesn't feel nice.


That's right. Don't do it to somebody else. Right. And I mean it's, it's when, uh, if you're doing magic and you're going to go on TV or in the public light, try to be as original as you can in your choreography. In your scripting and in your music and style, like how it's being produced. Don't cause I've seen a cut. We even saw that one guy. You know what's interesting though, but I also just want to add on top of it that, um, when you buy something, it's a, it's a different story. Like I remember one of the things that just even I said when in his lecture yeah. thank you. Um, was like, like he's, he's perfected it. This is, this is the routine. Like this is, yeah. You know, I don't know how much you're more, you really want to add to that.


Yeah. And he, uh, he was also saying about how if you buy it, then you get to do it right. Then you get to do, cause you bought the rights to do it, so you can do it. There's none of this, it's reserved for me to do on, you bought it and you get to do what he said after that though. What did he say? He's like, but if I'm on the bill. Oh yeah. But yeah, and then like there's has to be an array. Like you got to understand this is my thing. And that was interesting because I believe he has a story about somebody wanting to, doing his exact bit. He's an exact fit. And he's like, well, at a furnace, I'm here so I get to do my bed. Right, right. Yeah. And that's kind of the same thing as what Penn was suggesting, where, you know, it's kind of like, well, we kind of, you know, maybe just let us do it.


Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, and the other part of it is, is like, remember at the end of days, it's like the performers reputation that it's not going to be Penn and teller's reputation. It's hurt, right? It's what everybody thinks of the other one. So that's, that's the impact that we forget about. But that's a heavy written, unwritten rules. The own Rutan rules of magic, the unwritten rules of magic. And they all seem to revolve around stealing and theft in general. Kindness. Right? Uh, yeah. Kind of those things real quick. We're going to come back to this topic, but we're going to do one more quick Reddit, uh, topic here. Uh, we also saw this, we had this on here before, before he got into this ethics thing. But what is the best cards or cross routine you've ever seen? I have my answer right away.


Well you, yeah, you go ahead. I haven't say it's met my favorites. Matt King, I think he's nailed cards or crowded. Hard to top anything. It's like the egg bag. It is like, like Hobson doing the egg bag. Yeah. Yeah. Or like hoping that everybody listening, as soon as they heard egg bags, they reaching soil or even I'm card and mouth. He does card and mouth the best too. Yup. He's got so many of the gags. All these guys have a, um, kinda coined these bits and it's just like how Williamson coined Rocky, the raccoon. I mean he didn't create that, but he made that routine is up. Yes. Yup. So I would say Matt King, but uh, there are some incredible versions of cards across, out there. Like lately I've seen Chris may. He would do his is hilarious. I saw two from the side of the stage.


I laughed so hard through the curtain line. I don't want to spoil it. You have to see it live. If you've never seen Chris may, he is kinds of cross live but that is totally recommended. I know he'll perform at conventions and he's starting to perform a whole lot more. I'm pretty sure this routine will always be in a show and it's, it's a great one. That's a really, it's a really good credit crisis. Close to the great one. Michael close has a classic one I forgot about Michael closest cards across. That's right. Oh my God. I enjoyed, I enjoyed and I got to see as a great detail because I edited it. We've been so lucky actually that we've been able to see close yup. A whole bunch of times with and bring down the house with card tricks and, but it's really his performance style and his material that he does in the way he delivers it. Um, and kinda talking about ethics. You, we got to talk with him in a, we did a masterclass session with them. We sure did. And ethics is just one of those fuzzy topics and I thought he answered it like with precision. In fact, here it is.


Oh my gosh. He's always got like, he's always got, um, a sharp edge with a really great lesson. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I thought that was great. And uh, triple snaps or Michael close. I like his idea. I like his, um, do on the others man, his whole concept there basically. Yup. That's a good, um, the good, it's just you're calling me because you're about to do something unethical. Yeah. And he's got that drive to Mississauga to Toronto is, he's got that spot on man. You know what I kind of remember actually when I was going to TV broadcasting school and they told us, uh, whenever you create will be broadcast in the hallways of the college. So keep that in mind when you choose the material that you're going to create. Kennett, go in the hallway of the school. Can I ask you a question? No.


can I ask you anyways, what kind of tissues did they have at the university there? The uh, they, they had these one ply tissues, not a brand name. I'm pretty sure they got them. Nope, I'm a one of those premium ones. Don't even bother. Um, that's all you need to know. I think about ethics for Michael clothes. I suggest you check out conversations with clothes and his, his podcast. Do a search on the Googles. You can find it at anchor dot. FM, I believe is where he's got that posted. Do unto others as you want them to do as you. Uh, and you know what? Magic dash masterclass is a great place to learn all sorts of good stuff like that. So check that out. We're going to do a complete redesign on the class a in the site and simplifying stuff, some changes. So there'll be some construction going on over there.


We also want to kind of hear overall from you guys, the people that are listening. We don't want you to be so shy. We want you to open up if you have a question, if you got anything like that, we are going to tell you about the ways that you can get in touch with us and they're so easy. It is so easy. You can email us at magician's talking magic@gmail.com or send us a voice message and do this on Gmail to send would record incentives, a voice matching message. We'll play it back on the podcast if you're cool with it and we will answer your question and you can also message us on Instagram, which is at magicians talking magic. Or if you even find us personally on the Instagrams at Ryan Joyce magic or at Grameen using messages there too, we'd be more than happy to answer your questions right here on the podcast. Smiley face emoji. No shit emoji.


Um, so talking kind of ethics though, take continue with it. Have you ever been in an ethical situation with another magician? Oh boy. Yes. Oh really? Many times. More so early on. Yeah. Then now. But like with you where you were on the wrong end. Yeah. Yeah. And also like there's a choreography and such, even livers, one video sent to me that was just like everything about it was exactly the same as mine and music. And is that real? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, that's, I mean that was, I mean, I mean it's just weird. It is weird. Oh, that's weird. But uh, you can't, you know, those people will always just sort of be where they are in the same zone. So it didn't feel authentic. You can't duplicate someone else's work to 100%. It just isn't, it's not right. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't transmit.


Right. so how about you? Uh, I don't think, no, I've never been in a serious ethical issue before like that where, no, I don't. Um, I guess, uh, they, I had an artistic situation and a designing of a deco playing cards. They kinda came up and that was like a fiasco. I don't even know that ones. There are all these issues are always come down to like drama. Yeah. And this one never just ended. It just kind of vanished. And then it kind of came back recently and then vanished again. I'm not even sure about that one, but that it, the, you know, some of these things just don't matter over time, I guess. Yeah. Time heals all. But I've luckily never had T I have heard, uh, some of my lines and jokes from other magicians, but I just kind of go, okay, look, I want some new ones. That's fine. That's fine. I get it. I


undefined: get it, I guess. Yeah, yeah. It's, yes. Yeah. That's the thing. It's part of the deal and there's people that really defend it. I mean, the first person I think of is Jonathan Pendragon. I feel like he was always very vocal about defending his stuff. Oh, like being original and everything. Well, just being like out front like, and Walter Blaney. Well, in fact, Walter plenty started the whole world Alliance magic Alliance to stand up for all of this and Oh wow. People's rights and things. And so Walter has been ultra blamed. He's been a champion for, for that from, for all of his life. He's really tried to make a difference. And they were really the biggest when the mass magician came out. That was when that whole surge came. So no question about the mass magician because I, okay, this'll be fun conversation. I, when I w was a kid, like when I was more on the, I was way on the outside of magic at that time. Right. Just like magic kits and really low level magic tricks. I was not in on magic. And I remember when that show came out, it was so exciting. But then I had this idea that like, nah, they're not revealing the real ones.


Oh, interesting. Right. Well doesn't that say something? Okay, well doesn't that say something about conspiracy? It says Bruce can be like, Oh, easy conspiracy sells because we convince ourselves, even though we, because we just don't know. There's the portion of of knowledge until you fully understand something, it's never, it's still there and it's like a vacuum. Yeah. Yeah. The more that you allow it. So when the show came out, like where were you at in your magic career? Oh, that was, that was terrible for me. Yeah. The magic revealing stuff. Really. Yeah, it was, it wasn't really like the best thing you wanted. It turned the table. So it was more like magic was a punchline then it was like a dove dare and leather pants during competition pants. Yup. Check out that episode. Um, so it's, that's the thing about it. It really turned the table. So it, magicians felt mad because magic was becoming a joke. And then, I mean really it was at the time it was becoming, I mean, we couldn't get away with that stuff now, of course. So it was needed as a proper balance I suppose. But do you think there's an with, okay, do you think with this, I'm magic on Ron show now that's going on. It's like a hokey cheese


Ryan Joyce: ball magic show that goes wrong. Can we ma we can. There's an audience that now accepts the magic's 100%. A little bit of a joke, right? Like we're, we can do a jokey joke tongue in cheek full on, there's an audience for that style. Oh, I see. Yeah. There's an audience for everything. I'm not saying magic's all of a joke. I'm not saying that. Sorry. I know for sure. Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. I'm saying as a genre, like it could just be, I agree with you. Absolutely. Bring back the 90s in a micro niche. Yeah. And kind of like how pro wrestling still exists with its unique markets and their old school styles. Like they've gotten even more retro with some certain things right now that there's this NWA power. It's like 80 studio wrestling. Yeah. And I feel like people are excited to relive these old style things and appreciate the way it was put together.


Do you know why that is? I have a suggest, Joel, what's your suggestion? That's because of the millennial age is getting old. That is true. Well that's why. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. What is the specific word I'm thinking about? Come on. You're a mentalist. Um, um, uh, boy snubbed vintage. Retro. Well, yes. Uh, when it comes back to me, I'll let you know. It has since left the building, but yeah, I know what I mean. We, we let reminiscent cause that would, is that fair? Like, we want to reminisce on the past. We got all these Instagram photos that were so amused by yeah. And uh, what we remember is so much better. That's true. I guess that's true. Our, yeah, everything that we grew up with is really popular and other cat phono another cheese cheese bag, inspirational quotes, dessert. Oh yeah, totally. Everyone's like a mental Yogi now. They're inspirational quotes that come from mugs and hallmark cards. Yup. I'm sure. Tissue softly. That would be my quote. Which your SPI mine would be, um, keep your rug tame yet. Fierce. Never stop scratching. It's a really long quote. I wouldn't rub my nose with your carpet.


undefined: Well that just came out weird.


Ryan Joyce: All right, well like, um, Oh, you know what? I've totally forgot. We, we skipped over it. Usually it happens earlier, but I maybe I did, but we didn't do our review of the week.


undefined: All right, let's break into it. Let's do it now. Let's mash the order. Let's just break it in half. It is time charge of this episode.


Ryan Joyce: Magicians talk in magic. Rub your the week.


Graeme Reed: Yeah.


undefined: Buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. Buy, buy, buy blah blah blah blah.


undefined: Eh.


Ryan Joyce: Oh, I was going for the star Wars music. Oh, I didn't want to break copy. Right. I didn't want to do a copy. Right. It's cause my facial tissues, this is all a, you have a magic review of the week that's related to star Wars. I have not yet seen this movie but um, I would like to, I watch it usually with, so this is my fam, this is cool. This shit. I haven't been collecting cards in awhile, but I got together with Wilbert and Scott and Wilbur was kind enough to give to me this pack of playing cards. This is the star Wars playing cards from theory 11 and even Disney Disney's on there, you got the Disney logo on there too. It's incredible to see a pack of cards. My theory 11 and Disney ending my friend in star Wars I think sounds, you know what, what it sounded like when they slap that logo on that the Disney logo, it sounded like stung with a hot iron, which translates to five more dollars per deck.


So these cards are so cool. You got droids, you got the droids on them and everything. You got Luke Scott, if you were a star Wars fan, which I bet most of us are. This is one of the nicest design decks they've come out with in a long time. And I'm not like that big in a Dex cause they always cool. Yeah. All right. Kind of the same ish. Um, but they're just so cool. And if you were like that, that's the Jack of clubs or King of clubs right now as any emperor. He has got like a veil over, it's like Luke in the desert. No, it's emperor Palpatine and then, Oh Jacqueline, I don't really know what that will come on. Now, if you're in a star Wars, which is just everywhere right now with Amanda Lorian and everything like that, you got to get these cards. They're incredible. They are the coolest thing on the planet. Uh, these get five lights and oddly enough, when you shuffle them, it sounds like scooters, those little, the uh, the pottery potteries. Yup. Yeah, yeah. Actually. And also if you hold it between your hands, uh, and you close your eyes and if you hear Yoda speak, the deck will float. But the second you open your eyes, it's no longer


undefined: you're floating. It's true. Yep. That's true. You can't ask anybody for a card cause they give you the name of it and all sorts of weird words.


Ryan Joyce: Oh, you might. Yeah. You might unlock Darth Vader alarms.


undefined: Ah, like tricorders broken.


Graeme Reed: Tri-quarter great. All right. We get to check out to see who's geekier than the rest of us. We're pretty Greek geeky, cause I'm not, I have no Greek in my background. I have no greed muffin, a cheese.


undefined: Um, I gotta redo that all over again. Keep it in. It's all good. It's all fine. Oh, why not? It's because we're magicians, aside from our other jobs talking magic. My name is Ryan. Joyce has been a pretty good episode.


Graeme Reed: Yeah, this is a weird one. My name is Graemazing


Ryan Joyce: Shablazam


Graeme Reed: TaDoozle



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