Ep 24 - Developing a show and Performer fatigue

It's season two of Magicians Talking Magic! On this episode, hosts Ryan Joyce and Graeme Reed discuss how to create a new show, where to begin, performer fatigue and openers. Plus the latest magic news, magic review and reddit topic of the week!


Episode 24 | Magicians Talking Magic Podcast

Hosts Ryan Joyce & Graeme Reed


Listen to the Podcast Here:


Audio Transcript For the Hearing Impaired


Ryan Joyce: Ryan Joyce: Welcome to Magicians Talking magic. My name is Ryan Joyce for the last 20 years as I, I've for magic, I've also been a professional calligrapher. I make stuff and words look pretty on pages. That is what I do. I am a calligrapher and this is,



Graemazing: My name is graemazing. And besides being a professional magician, I am a professional curler as well. Competitive curler. I compete all over the world competitively in curling. And I'm not texting you on one of those bonds. Spiel videos. Yeah. One of those bonds. And this isn't, we're not talking hair stuff. We're talking to hurry hard throwing rocks at houses,


Graeme Reed: all that stuff. Or is it sweep is though with a yell sweet. Sweet. Do it. Do it. If I was the guy, if I'm not, I don't yell. Um, I'm the lead on the team. So that means I throw the first two rocks and then I sweep everybody else's stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. I'm the, I'm the muscle of the team. That's what we come. The muscle. You can't, you can't possibly yell and I don't yell, but I encourage avert like put that energy out. It's just too much. It is too. It is. Cause I have to sweep so I would just, but I do it. It's like a big word for me. Like a big word. You know, you look at it as a calligrapher and it's like bats my heart. Sweet. Oh, how old am I going to fit this big word on this page? So our skip, I try to, I want our skip to say do it, do it. But our skip, our skip chooses to say a fast, fast, fast, fast, fast.


Ryan Joyce: Oh that sounds too much like a video game. Well today on magicians talking magic we got all sir. Well happy new year. Happy new year. And you know what this is, we are in a brand new is 2020 and this is season two sure is to have magicians talking magic episode 2024 for Gina, 24 means no, but I would love to, I love writing fours as a calligrapher. Oh, there's so much freedom. You know, you can peek together the triangle at the top or you can keep it open depending on the style and the flare. 24 what a great number to reference. Do you like open, top or close top? You know what? As a, as a traditional career Legere for I, I really like the clothes top triangular look. Yeah. Since we're on the topic, what about the seven on the seven? Do you do the little, I put the little, yes.


I, I like to put a little cross in there and make it look like a tea for people who are uneducated and wall and for, because you're so skilled in the art. What's that little element called? Oh, I forgot now. All these years. That's the only problem with, you know, this many years in calligraphy. It just, it's like, what's that thing where you take two cards up to the top of the deck? I don't even remember. I just take two cards off the top. Is it a pushover? Is it a turnover? Is it, I just, just do it. I don't even think about if you search that on YouTube, it is a rabbit hole of debate of what a push over a turnover. A lift. All those things are. Yep. Yep. Magic debates. Magic debates. So have you been pushing into any magic business or you've been celebrating what's so I enjoyed downtime during the holiday season.


I kinda shut out. I had a, I set up everything so it was programmed on my social media so I would still be posting, but I kind of turned everything off, kept it really low, key chill. Uh, after doing all those shows, cause we probably did a lot of shows through the holiday season. I don't know about everyone else. Do you ever get a performer for fatigue after a show where you get your full high energy, you do the show, you finished the show, still full high energy, but the day after just crash. Crash. Yeah, absolutely. Now put, and that was why the first three days of tour we're like mountains. Like I would say to everybody, like on day three you're gonna feel like this is, you can't even do this. And then by day seven you'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yes, 100%. It's a lot.


It's a lot of exertion for sure. I mean depending on size and scale, but really at the end of days anxiety is anxiety, you know, and strain this strain and all that energy is the same. We're just public speaking in general or sharing like talking to people for countless amount of time takes a lot of energy, takes a lot of those people are taking a little piece of you for sure. Yeah. And it definitely takes, at least me, I dunno, maybe there may, maybe others listening are like these two guys are weird, but I think a lot of people relate to that. Right? Yeah. So I enjoyed all my downtime basically after, cause we last chatted about her last Christmas shows and I only had one show left. Uh Ooh. I also did a TV appearance. I was unsafe one more time. How did that go? That went amazingly well.


It was really, really good. I had no idea what I was going to do. No clue. And what did you just sign? I decided to do the closing piece that I do in my standup show or have someone read someone else's mind. I had never done it on the show and I knew I'd have two people working with me, but I only had six minutes. This is a for sure, eight to 10 minute routine. Oh boy. So I tried to hustle it. Yes. I tried to hustle it as best as I could and also spit my plugs and watching back the footage and be entertaining and hold the room. Yup. And then I also know sometimes I might go a little fast or something might just happen. So I had sponge balls in my pocket. I was like, I need as a special just in case, just in case I was going to do sponge balls, squishy tangerines as I call them, but I'm really surprised at how well the whole segment went. It was a really good spot. I'm going to upload it on my blog really soon. I think it's already up there. If you're at a, I've done a post about curling and magic together because I'm a professional curler and I and I also doing magic. Yeah, so why not do both at the same time? Why not? That's why I got into the calligraphy and the magic, you know, there's just a certain fanfare.


There's the league magic yeah, yeah, yep. And bind the two together. Yet those guys that juggle the, they have a bunch of calligraphy pens in their hands and they will cut them and juggle them and spin them. No, I haven't. Do they make like a creation or something? It's like car history but a calligrapher stree Oh wow. That's incredible. Yeah, it's a small, the new rage. Is there a rubric? Do they throw a Rubik's cube up there too at the same time? Betcha. I betcha too. I bet you they do. Um, so new years on new years I did, uh, my last, last show of the decade I was doing Walker and magic and my favorite place, the black bull. And I decided to do a whole new set of Walker and mind reading cause I do stand up migrating. So I want to do some marker.


Graeme Reed: I'm mind reading and I learned from me and my style didn't work well. Oh it didn't work well, but it was okay. So I tried, I gave it a good college try at a bunch of tables. The first table, everything worked really well, but it was a noisy new year's Eve room. Oh, right. So you doing mind-reading, you need full attention in that storytelling or are you just don't understand what's happening with magic. The addition of a noisy room helps with mr. action and magic with mind reading. You want more of a, you need that one on one. So you, it was very tricky to get that. Yep. So now, so not much was understood, but I switched it up back to the magic tricks and I uh, took it home with card tricks. Nice. And it was, it was a great, great end. And then I just came home and we watched the new year's Eve special, the Ryan Seacrest, and we were flipping through the CBC one and Steve Harvey on Fox. What do you, what were you doing on new year's Eve? Oh, I uh, I was visiting a friend, I guess. So yes in the house,


Ryan Joyce: but also, uh, yeah, I didn't really see too much, but uh, I did catch a little bit of the next day to get up to speed on everything, but I've not, I don't know. I lately I go to bed so early I'd wouldn't have stayed up to make up for the whole thing. Right. But I was up super early the next day and get them started on my own new year's resolutions and things. I'm also trying to, yeah, I'm trying to be dedicated to a few little things in one of those is social media. Like you inspire me. On our last episode we were talking about scheduling all those Instagram posts and things. So I definitely, I've started that,


Ryan Joyce: uh, that journey. Uh, it makes, it takes the stress out of it, you know, and the self doubt, I was talking about this with some family members over the holidays because they all have different, everyone has a little bit of a side hustle going on. And I was mentioning about how I switched to scheduling my social media posts and it allows me to post more and be on social media. Maybe 80% less. Yeah, way less. You actually get to enjoy your day and time, but still look like you're posting way too much. Yes, it's really great. So you have to, I would highly suggest, I think we might talk about it in the next episode, so be sure to like check in next week. Yeah. We're going to talk more about social media content planning and how to schedule these posts, how to schedule these posts if you don't already know.


But there's some simple tools out there and it's also ever-changing as 2020 all new apps, websites, I don't even know what these things are called. They're always popping up. Lots of tools available. But speaking about, yeah, a new year's Eve, we were watching, um, the different specials and we caught the Steve Harvey, uh, Fox special and on, there was a little bit of magic. We caught America's got talent contestant Dom chambers. He's the, he's the Australian guy with the beers. He produces endless. All these beers and pours a beer to the iPad and everything. But on here he left the beers at home and bright, a little piece from Australia Vegemite and he did a cool kind of like prediction inside of a Vegemite container. It was great. It was really good. It was awesome. If you haven't seen it, I know I tricks has the link on Zoho handsome.


Yeah, I definitely watched it. Yeah, that was, I thought it was great. Yeah. The eye maybe. Oh, you're reserving the, probably the trick has read on room for everybody. That's probably a good idea. But I thought it was great. It would cover a moment that it fit his style and he scripted it well and, and he did it with Maria Menounos and she's a great host and she sold the whole thing well too. Yeah, yeah, yup. Yeah. He really, yeah, I think you nailed that. I was impressed. It was really good. And isn't he? I think he's on the illusionists who are now too. That's why he's on TV. Oh, that's cool. He's very wonderful coming up through Canada. Anytime there is a, uh, like a branch of the illusionist who are coming up for the holidays. It's happening right now. Oh. And I looked at the poster, it looks like a different cast, but I think I saw Steve Valentine on the poster.


Oh. So I got to look to see who the whole, I'm a little interested and intrigued cause I know tickets are on sale because it's the last couple of days of the whole thing. So Alicia and I were talking about possibly going to catch a show, maybe do a little Oh, cool. Do a little date skis. That's cool. That'd be cool. Yeah. And yeah. Well we'll, I'll buy the next episode. We'll, we'll look to see the envelope, be able to share some information. Absolutely. Definitely can, I guess we didn't even know if we checked it out. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm also in magic news and magic news. I saw this really cool trailer drop. This was on Nitrix tricks as well. But uh, Franz Harary uh, master illusionist spectacle creator has a brand new show called magic stars and it looks beyond impressive. Did you see this?


Ryan Joyce: I did. I did watch that. And it does look great. I mean it combines all of Franz is big, big stuff. It appeared, um, with uh, probably some applaud in a theme, but it was very like, Oh, I want to say Disney on steroids. Made some magic show with a really big, big, big video screen in the background.


Ryan Joyce: Just yeah. Visually unbelievable. Huge illusions and moment and Rocco and Rocco Rocco's there. So I drove Rocco here once. Really? Yup. Yup. I feel shaky. Cam, cam, cam, cam, cam convention. Yeah. Did he wear sunglasses and want to share? Shirted and his shirt was buttoned all the way down. Yeah. And as you walk, things fell out of his sleeves. Yeah. What does a, what does he say? He's a great guy. He was a great guy. What does he smell interesting? Oh, I do cigarettes. Uh, I'm just curious because with all this stuff that he flies up his suit jackets and everything like that. Like I know he gets his stuff cleaned, but what he smelled like a, does he imagine? He smells really nice because he looks as cool as you can be as like, he looks really cool, right?


Ryan Joyce: Yeah. He, yeah, he was a cool guy. He really was the cool guy and really just really kind and yeah, he was, that was a cool moment. I was able to meet a whole bunch of magicians back and I was like young, you know, when Joan was organizing those, it was so funny too. I mean I, there was a couple of horror stories in there, but uh, I w I will share those for in-person conversations. Um, and then there's some really amazing people that were so, so interesting. And so sharing with their informant that's magic is a great industry. Anyways, we really got off topic there about Franz is, I've never, I did meet Franz,


Ryan Joyce: uh, at, uh, uh, magic live. You interviewed. All right. Yeah, that's very awesome answer. Yeah, that's right. And so I was at, I went


around asking people what, what a question. Basically I'm on camera and we should, I'll play his response. Well, let's play it right now.


Franz Harary: Hi, I'm Franz Harary. I am a working professional illusionist for the last um, but a a hundred years now. And uh, the question was brought to me, uh, is magic and art, uh, and the very idea that I would have been here, that question kind of wants me to take a staple gun and put it through my brain. It makes me crazy. The problem we're facing as magicians, as anyone in the magic community is that if you look at the rest of entertainment, if you'll look at the rest of art, to be a singer, dancer, actor, a playwright, a composer, anything you need some modicum of talent and that talent is either going to come naturally or most often it's going to come through training.


Problem with magic is because of how it is perceived in the eyes of the audience. The most important element of magic is the secret. Well, the secret comes not from the performer unfortunately, and we can talk about that, but rather from the designer, from the inventors. So you've got a hundred guys out there or more making a bowling ball up here or you know, 500 guys floating a table. And another 500 guys floating a table that they've ripped off from LA Saunder. And there's so much of that going on there that it's become a big blur. You'll look on America's got talent and you see guys doing tricks that they bought online or in a magic shop, probably rehearsed that afternoon. And now they're on America's got talent fooling what is supposedly the representation of, you know, of the U S uh, and it's nuts and it's getting worse.


I was just talking to Mike. Michael's a great illusion builder. He's selling, uh, um, um, helicopter appearance for around $15,000. And we talked about the fact that all you need today is $50,000, and you got the helicopter go out and get yourself some cards printed and a website and boom, you're an illusionist. So the entire industry is completely out of whack. It is so corrupted is so disjointed. Uh, there was a time when what it meant to be a magician was to be an artist. Keller, Blackstone, Houdini, Thurston, all these guys, they invented magic. And in inventing magic, they communicated their human experience. If you look at Houdini, Houdini, his entire message was the suppression of immigrants during the turn of the century. You know, it is the communication of the human experience and that is what art is. Problem with magic. All that's been poultice shifts. It is so gone.


It's a bunch of guys copying criss angel and David Copperfield and Lance Burton and you pick one and you find their music and you find their costumes and assist the clone. Now I've heard many, many art by the way, you can tell you hit a button with his question. I've heard many, many arguments from people about, well, why do you need to invent your own stuff? Why do you need to be original? Why does it count? And the fact is you can make a living buying somebody else's stuff and doing it, but if you're an artist, it's like being a karaoke singer. I can tell you I would, I would shoot myself rather than doing somebody else's stuff. I was forced to do an origami, great trick, but I was forced to do it a couple of years ago. I just wanted to die. You know, it's if you are an artist, the idea of painting someone else's picture by number makes you fricking crazy.


And yet that is with the majority of magic is the reason that the question was even asked his magic and art is because the community today is so fantastically misguided. Anybody you speak to, 80% of those people are going to look at magic as a craft to be perfected rather than an art to be forwarded. And so long as there's this massive gap, this massive, this, this abyss of understanding of what art is and how magic fits into it, we're screwed. So the best I can tell you is if you're a magician, if you want to be a magician, you absolutely must be doing your own stuff. And it must come from your experience, from your heart. Nobody cares about the magic that you do doing. Nobody cares about Copperfield because he vanished the statue of Liberty. They care about that because of copper field.


When you go see any magician in Vegas, if they're good, you don't walk out of the theater going, Oh wow. Did you see the thing where he did with the balloon in the card and the blah, blah, blah. You say, that's a really nice guy. I want to take him to dinner. I want to have lunch with that guy. That is the end goal to what we're doing. Our job as magicians is to communicate that experience and to make the audience connect with us and hopefully grow from our performance. And that's never gonna happen if you're doing the same crap like a thousand other people are doing. So is magic and art. Yes. Unequivocably that's the word. Uh, it is, uh, it is an art just as every other entertainment, performing art and fine art is. The problem is this entire community has been so grossly confused for so many years and it's continuing on that I don't know where it's all going to lead.


I suspect in the next five to 10 years there's going to be a lot of weeding out of a lot of hacks that, that did nothing more than, you know, take their rich uncle's money and buy a bunch of props. And when that happens, then we've got a shot at going back where we are. Until then, there was just a small pocket of guys in our community that are genuinely artists and you can identify them simply by looking around at who is inventing stuff, who is creating this stuff, who is, who is producing new magic producing new product. And in so communicating their experience, they're out there. But you gotta look at Franz Harary


Ryan Joyce: yeah, I thought that was pretty interesting. I asked, you know, a handful of people that same question, uh, Matt King and that's on my blog, Ryan Roy's dot com. It's a great post. It's all right. Yeah. And I mean, but I think the most interesting advances. I agree. So I, I hope that's a big success because I love Franz is really nailing, you know, that the magic scene over in Asia for sure. Uh, and that's helping just innumerably.


Ryan Joyce: Absolutely. I really like his whole style. There's a clip of him in there where he's wearing a full on wizard cloak and he casts his hand. I had a culture ignites and huge fire flames. It was cool. He's a full law. He is a level, I was asked this when I was doing the level seven wizard bit recently. It was the highest level of wizardry. I dunno what the number is, but it's Franz. It's Franz. Yeah. I'll make, Oh my goodness. Calligraphy set out of that for you. How you can bring it, put it on the wall. Yeah. Top level wizard. Franz Franz put it on. Nice. Yeah. I don't even know. I don't know what color of sash that gets her. What kind of pin that gets on your jacket? It's probably gold. It probably lights on fire. It also levitates and can make you invisible and vanish.


Yup. Oh, that's some interesting, uh, interesting. Franz Harary news. I the, so here's hoping and double snaps to, uh, do some ambitious projects. Hopefully we can see more magic woo. Yeah. Woo. Um, also in more magic news, I was looking at new products that come up, guys. Emily's just scan and magic websites. Look, it's, you know, we're all in magic stuff while he's looking at things. Yep. And it was cool to see Paul Romani who was just at Oh wow. Magic festival and he mentioned this at the magic festival too, that he was going to release this again and it's his, uh, pro chair test. Oh yeah. Pro, which is a great chair test routine. And he demoed it. I've seen him do it on other lectures too. I think he talked to me down at the table. He explains it, but he has some special props that come with it and everything like that.


And it's a great routine but it's also fun. Sure. I'm in the demo with a, a bunch of other magicians and people that came to Oh wow. Festival. That's awesome. Yeah. So there's a, there's some clips in there of the lecture he gave. Where did you find this work? I'm going to check it out. You can find this. I know it's released through vortex magic so you can find it on vortex magic website for sure. And they're also have a whole bunch of other cool um, Paul Paul products there as well. Sorry, I have this dog cough that isn't just popping out of my throat sometimes. Oh, that's all right in advance. And, um, you can also find it on your favorite, any magic dealer right now. Like I saw it on penguin, I said on, um, I don't know where I saw it. I don't remember.


I just said, I think I saw it on penguin for sure, but it's been, it's one of the latest vanish. Think vanishing ink is maybe where I first saw it, but it's awesome. It's, I was, uh, it's 150, U S I think it's a great routine. It's one of those pack flat plays big. You got those, you get these cool chair covers and the, the whole pad folio thing that makes the whole thing work. And you get multiple routines like you do with any, um, products from Paul. Amazing quality posts. Such a great guy. Super cool. I was reading yesterday, actually I was reading vanish the, the, the book that I bought and what we gave away. Who Michael Franz. Michael Crick Francis was the winner of that. You remember from triple snap for adequate Mike. Yay. Um, and it, yeah, it's so good. I got maybe a third of the way through and there's a couple ideas I picked up already from it. So I'm looking forward to munch and through the rest of it. So if you haven't checked out, that is a really great book as well. Check that out. Advantage. It's the, um, the best of the first year. Nice. That's amazing. That's amazing. Um, I was trying to look up to see the newest addition to vanish and I don't know if it's at just yet to see it was on the cover and what's up? Um, yes, we, we with anticipation. I will do it. I'm going to do a quick,


Graeme Reed: um,


Ryan Joyce: Nope, Nope, no. The website is currently down for me, which is a bummer, so that's okay. Okay. No, that's very well. You know, you never know. You never know Mikey. We could break news here on the podcast sometimes. Yep. You never know. But I'm excited for the next, the first edition of 2020 advantage magazine to come out. Very excited. It's actually, it's become my new favorite thing to read.


That's, it's absolutely. And the fact that it's digital and you can take it everywhere and it's for free. Free, free, free, free. Yeah. It's so it's awesome. And you can, there's a lot of cool, um, advertisements too for magic dealers and things you don't commonly see, which is great. There's a lot of cool stuff in there. Awesome stuff. Yup. Um, do you want to do a quick review for you? Who do you, who do you follow on Instagram actively and or you don't, you, you don't follow Twitter too much, but who would be a couple maybe social media magicians you follow or recommend people follow? So my favorite is Mario. The magician. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome that you said that. Yeah. They uh, Mario. Yeah. Mario and Katie are amazing on their social media. I think they're doing it the best. Um, and it's at Mario magician, I think Murray, the maker magician, right?


Mario? I don't know what his handle is, but if you search Mario as a magician, you're going to find them. You're going to find him. Um, I'm trying to Mario the magician. Everybody listening is at Mario. The magician. I off the top of my head besides Mario, I don't know of Maine. I on Facebook I always check out the society of American magicians. They have great news posts. Yeah, really good stuff on there. I'm part of a bunch of random Facebook groups. Um, there's the party business think tank, which is a great little group where people share ideas. There's some a entertainment ones and magic entertainment. I bet a lot of people are in these similar groups as well. But these are great little media hubs to learn news and things. There's also a couple on Facebook. They are just filled with too much. People need to slow up on the posting or calm down. Some people do in the video, like the magic to video camera stuff. It's not, that's not, I don't know.


Ryan Joyce: I don't know. I feel like it represents a certain phase of your magic evolution. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And then once you're into like real world stuff and understanding that you just want to carve out like a couple of really great pieces that you'll base your entire career on and hopefully do well and save your sanity. Um,


Ryan Joyce: actually I just, I was thinking about it again. You know, who's got a great feed right now too. I like Sam Pierce's. Uh, yeah. Magicians Sam Pierce, he's doing great behind the scenes plus. So great clips or ms shows and Cody to Cody.


Ryan Joyce: Absolutely. And I'm glad we're chatting about this. These are some really great local people that you should be checking out. And Cody's, is that Cody Monahan? Yeah. Um, so, uh, I was also, I can't help it add the, the, the big names to Justin Willman. Oh, of course. Yeah. Um, I don't see, I'm, I ask cause I don't really actively go on and look. Um, so I'm, I'm just curious to see on my radar who I should put out there and we've should, yeah, let us know in the comments tag some of the people that you think we should follow or that you follow. And, uh, in our episode.


Ryan Joyce: Oh, I also enjoy a Scott Alexander's really fun to follow too. Oh, I just don't find all on him. I don't follow him. He has, excuse me. He's a lot of fun. Um, has a lot of fun all the time. And he just did that live holiday special too, which was pretty amazing. The holiday special. He did live from Facebook. I watched Scotty magic for those who are yeah, listening and he's done all those holiday spectacular spectaculars on penguin this year. They didn't have one. So they did it live on Facebook. He did it live on Facebook himself. I think he went for two and a half hours. Wow. Incredible. Incredible. It was and it was a lot of funny, gave away a lot of free tricks and things like that. So I think you can still watch this, the stream on his website. Um, but he was offering deals and stuff of course.


And those things will all end up being still watch the streams. A lot of fun. He pokes a lot of fun at magic every single year as he does. He kind of roasts the biz, which is awesome. Um, Ooh. Speaking of Scott Alexander, actually I have a cat. I have a little review ski. Nice FIS weeks. Uh, magicians talking magic reviews ski. He brought up in one of his things that he has a version of the mercury card fold, well, not a version of it, but a version of a folding a card in corridors and he calls it the C fold. And I'm not gonna give away the method, but I w I was skeptical, but I've always tried the mercury card fold in. It's always a little funny. Right. I can never get it perfect. I'm not that.


Ryan Joyce: Yeah. I mean there's uh, yeah, there's, I agree times where it's like,


Ryan Joyce: well that's not quite, yeah, that looks more than half and half is more like a hazard and all half kind of more like an angle mush, I dunno. Yeah. So the C fold, I tried it the first time and you nail it exactly every time. Hm. It's very clean. It was so interesting. It's a download on penguin. That's where you get, he doesn't have it on his website. I think it's just on penguin. I picked it up right away. He also gives you a bunch of great tricks in the download, which is rare when you get a download that you get more than one trick. He gives you a bunch of tricks with the C fold so that you can use the C fold in different applications. So I highly recommend that I get that. Five to do those little five to diesels. Wow. Triple snap.


You're killing these reviews, man. This is great. Weekly reviews. Magic reviews. Let's, uh, let's talk about the real world news. The front line of the war of the news. Reddit. Let's go to Reddit. Reddit topic of the week. Um, Oh, where can I learn dove magic and is it difficult to train a dev? I have. Wow. Hmm. And this comes from men Morrow? Yup. Wow. I have never done any dev work ever. It was that real. Yes. I chose the, I chose this, right. A topic kind of assuming that you've worked with a dove. I looking back, don't even know if I've held a, uh, I mean that wasn't rubber. Uh,


Ryan Joyce: aye. Okay. So early on it was one of those decision making things for me and magic and dozers I really big and I just never felt really comfortable. And he certainly didn't want the, we had a dog at the time and age, the realization it was a lot of work and things. I don't know, I never went down that road. Um, but I knew several friends that did and a lot of people that, that had birds. Um, and it's a really great punctuation Mark, isn't it? I mean it was at the time it, it now does not, in my opinion, really fit anymore.


Ryan Joyce: I, it's in a 20, 20 world with animals say I guess on stage. Okay. But I feel like there's going to be an animal activist person and if you're doing it in a children's show, I feel like someone will be like, Oh no, the food or some sort of sanitary, I don't know. Yeah. It's just all these sensitive issues. I think. I, I think it's still amazing to see it. There's so few people that do it. Um, like I know locally Ryan Brown does Dov magic Oh yes. It really awesome seeing Greg Frewen of course. Does dev magic. Yeah, well, and that's when, you know, like how well they're treated. So it's just, I worry about that too greatly. Right. The PR these days is just getting more, well, there's, there's the Paul dove story. Should we just keep that to herself or is that a shared skate?


Yeah, let's, yeah, let's, if you see us in person, you got to ask us about the Paul Reuter. Doug or anybody that toured and knows Paul. Well, the toured with devs would have the same I co I couldn't ever do it as a veggie. I just couldn't even like even putting in any kind of animal. I don't know. It's just not my, my thing for me when I, I remember meeting Freddy fusion and, Oh, he's cool. Yup. He did the duck bucket. Yeah. And I met him, uh, after the show and I was like, Oh, the duck is really awesome. And he was like, never work with animals. Never. You have to clean up. They poo everywhere. And I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. And I remember the infamous, I don't know if this, anyways, I remember hearing Lance Burton, the doves man duh duh.


No this phase not at all wanting to do right of work. Yeah, it is impressive. It is so impressive. Off the top of my head if this Reddit user even listens to the podcast and if even if someone's interested in learning, Doug magic, I think Dan Sperry has material on dev magic right and he would probably be the best. Dan would be the guy to go to. Like you, he's got some resort. I think he's all digital downloads on his own site even. I'm not saying, I dunno how you acquire that stuff anymore. I actually on his website he doesn't offer magic. He separates his magic tutorial from his own brand. Yeah. He doesn't want those things to like criss cross. I don't think. He's a great graphic designer to bet nature. He loves the, he's a killer brand. He's, I mean he's done so well.


It's just marketing himself. He's one of those original guys that did that type of social media and really branded himself and market and such. You free guy too. So yeah. And obviously doing well since the whole bummer situation last year it did C w we'll keep you posted, um, the episodes to see what he produces next. Yeah. So I don't know what to tell you about dose. Um, I was always fascinated and I'm just gonna throw out information, but I think this is w I always want to know how do they make them pink. Yeah, that's the part that's weird. When they're colored. What happened? Oh, the answer to that. No, do I do, Oh, you do. So do you through, what is it? I think I do and we'll get corrected. So if we're, if I'm wrong, uh, it's like a food coloring bath. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's not as terrible as I assumed. It was. Like you dip the burden, like, yeah, you'll feed it an orange for every, every day, 30 for 30 days and then, uh, yeah, yeah. It's like those roses that you just, it's like it's one of those twisted world war II pseudo science experiments.


Ryan Joyce: Yes. So I'm pretty sure it's food coloring. Let us know if you are in the know if I'm wrong. So interesting. I have no shame. Yeah. You've never done animals. Cody has worked with animals, right? Cody? Yeah. He's done some really interesting if things were the animal sees, Oh gosh, alligators. Wow. Baby alligators. Right. Did he do a kangaroo? He's got a bird too as well that you know. I don't, do you remember the person's name? Oh my goodness. I know that is nasty. Oh yeah, yeah. No, I don't remember that. The birds got an attitude. It's a chatty, chatty. Yeah, they can have personalities, but there's some really, Oh my gosh. Joan has birds. We we should chat with Joan about birds. She does. Is she interesting? She does a show every now and then, right? Yeah, she does kids. You had shows in public shows for like does she deal with worries and she does a bird in the show and she's got, yeah.


Not like flying out of anything but so, or our bunny actually is now. I think what it is so the kids can pet the bunny and things. I think she doesn't have one. She is just so funny. She rents one amazing, which is such a great idea. The way to do it, 100% from a breeder in town that breeds bunnies and the, she just established a relationship and she rents it for a day or a couple hours. And does she have a name that the bunny gets every single time? I wonder. Oh, these are great questions that we should talk to Joan Caesar about. And in fact, this is so creepy and weird. Let me just explain this. So you got me scheduling posts on Instagram. Well, as per my kind of new resume, your resolution resolution to myself, I scheduled the week's posts Tuesday I decide is going to be traveled Tuesday.


And so as I'm flipping through my thousands of photos of, of just being everywhere, which one do I want to post for travel Tuesday and write a short little ditty about? And I choose this amazing day. I believe it was killed. Oh gosh. I, I've proved myself wrong here, but kill away. Uh, I believe in Hawaii we were a volcano extinct volcano. We'd take this trip up this mountain and there's this beautiful tree, and I have footage of this purple damn tree. It's just stunning. And I posted a picture of that, the tree, uh, on, on in Hawaii this random day I was on a couple of years ago. And Joan puts a comment and you can go on my feed or I enjoys magic. Um, and she's like, you won't believe it. But George, her husband, George and I are in Hawaii and that very same day we're going to that very same like volcano or is that, and they took a picture in there a while. She just do, I haven't seen since, but she, like, she messaged it that that's exactly where they were going and she was, she put in the big Island, so I need to make sure that it's the same, but like the fact that she was in Hawaii in the same, Oh gosh, is it, the things work so weird that way. It's the smell. It's like a mentalist scripting bed. If I could boil that down to 4 cents.


Ryan Joyce: Right, right, absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, Oh my gosh. Wow. That's amazing. I just thought that was so fascinating and interesting way to serve. I do know talking about animals that Mario, the magician, he has a bird, I don't know if he still uses the bird, but he would produce a bird and it's name was mozzarella. Oh my God. Super awesome. That is, what would your animal name B. Oh, this is, um, what was the, you've got seven already, so you're maybe named burnt out. Maybe like Luna. Was that the name of the cat from sailor moon? I don't know. Never.


I don't know. I would put this would be, this would be a full day of research and thought. Yes, it actually, so for sure it's like an opener in your show. There's too much pressure for real. Um, so we're, it's a fresh year. It is a fresh decade and we both were chatting at the end of last season of magicians, talking magic that we want to upgrade, change, rewrite, reconstruct, put to get, redo our shows. And I've been thinking a lot about this. I do a couple of different shows. And one thing I've been thinking about is a more of a family style show, a war or a kid show, a school show workshop thing. And I do have this character that I'm a level seven wizard and I want to elaborate on that character adding things such as a Patronus which is your spirit animal. You're magic animal. So Harry Potter had the owl in a cage. Right? I've been thinking really hard about what is hilarious that could be inside of a bird cage and then I could maybe add some basic um, motion to it. Animatronics or something. Can you just whatever it is, can you twist it out of a balloon animal? That would be fantastic too. Yeah, that'd be really good too


Ryan Joyce: because then you have like a prop you can use for something later in the show. That's true too. I said look, this is a good point to talk about show structure. I am, when I approached something, I'm always trying to find a way, a to like transition from one thing to the other. Using similar volunteers are similar props or something and segways and then also having something you can like something that ties everything in or like just some backbone to the things. So that might be,


Ryan Joyce: yeah. Um, yeah, another thing too, because I also have random goals that I, or a specifications that I want for the show, like it has to fit in a certain case. Right. Um, another thing I want to do, and this is actually a Chris a Hendricks idea, and I never really thought about this until I was watching her lecture, but she is removed all waste from her show. So there's no waste as from a, as a conscious effort to not be wasteful is right now my family show, like I'll dispose of a bunch of paper bags, balloons and all those things are terrible for the environment and they're all bad. So if I could eliminate those things, and even just from a standpoint of your show reset makes it easier just reusing the same pro, you don't have to get rid of things. And so I kind of want that as a main goal is rewriting and restructuring. Um, well actually this is creating this show. I'm going to be creating this level seven wizard kind of show thing.


Ryan Joyce: Yeah. And so this is your audience demographic. Do you know, have you specified? So this one I don't have drinks, etc.


Ryan Joyce: I don't have a full on end goal for this. We were talking about this, uh, off Mike just before we started, but I, um, I want to do a family style show where I can be a like an idiot wizard character that's obviously not for adults and still do like fun magic I still want to do fun magic that Avi maybe adults will still out. That's the goal. But I don't know. So I think the venue that I want to look every knows maybe doing school shows and workshops for schools in mixing in a fun show with some teaching and magic as well. All in this weird realm that I've created is level seven wizard. Nice. So I don't know what the end goal is, what, what it'll be, but it's kind of like family educational learning value, sellable, marketable, right. That's, that's the grand scheme. Right? So maybe next week I'll have more of a flush that idea here on this whole thing. But that's,


Ryan Joyce: so what do you think is your first strategy and CRE and creating something like that and don't even, I mean this is fitting for everybody creating some kind of show. Where do you focus on first? What do you think is the first, so right now I'm very scatterbrained on the whole thing. Yeah. Like full disclosure on that whole thing. I started with like, um, a mine map with the general concept of L out of your brain onto paper and started spewing out ideas. And then I also


Ryan Joyce: have a website, uh, that had been pre-building. So if I, cause I figure if I write it out in the format of a website of how you're going to sell it to someone, it will all come to you. And is, it kind of creates, I guess a, you're creating like not the character but the background of your intentions and your goals. So from that, then I will create the show to match my sales pitch. But at the same time simultaneously I'm creating the show because I have all these creative ideas of, Oh, that trick would be great. This would be a neat idea that it could add in. So I have all those ideas written down to very loose, but nothing is um, tight yet magic wise and more coming at it from what is my objective with this show, what I want to do with it. Yup. That's great.


Ryan Joyce: What, do you have any timeline expectations on yourself to,


Ryan Joyce: um, I want to get hustling on this so that I'm ready I guess near the end of winter here. Yeah. So co like three a couple months or four months. Even two to three months. Yeah. So kind of this month is uh, R and D and Zig Ziglar's quote, I believe it's exactly, there's a dream as a date with a deadline. Goal is a dream. A goal is a dream with a deadline. That's really good. Napoleon Hill. To be honest though, I just write down my goals on Trello and nothing really has a deadline to me if it's, um, a certain thing, but things are getting done a lot faster now because they have this all my goals written on the computer. I know where they are. I can even look on my phone, on the Trello app to just double check where I'm at with some of my ideas.


Yep. Um, well, when you're curling, do you just arbitrarily throw that stone into like a empty or best or do you have like a target? You try to aim, you're always aiming at a target. There's always a broom at the other end. The skip wants you to throw it out and make it easier when you're, you know, where you want to go. It does make it easier, I guess, when you have that deadline defined the parameters. So maybe I will throw a target deadline on this whole thing. I gotta say the end of February, it's all packaged. Yep. I always know how many words I gotta squeeze onto a page. That always helps. Yeah. What, um, what about you? What do you, are you working on new show? New strategy? Yeah. I want to, this is something that I have talked about for too long and I have added


Ryan Joyce: new routines. At least I need to give myself a little bit of faith in the last 10 years. I have tried a few things, um, but I've been really working on the fig Newtons of my, you know, of my career,


Ryan Joyce: Mac King isms. How do we want to the magical thread. Yep. You know, the details and the eventually becomes 48 fig Newtons kind of a thing. Um, that's really, I've been working on the same


Ryan Joyce: show relentlessly I suppose. And so now I'm ready. There's a couple things. I'm on the inside. I'm like, I really don't want to do this anymore and that can't be good projecting wise. I'm a good actor, but there's going to be that 1% that's still holds back, I'm sure. So I'd like to work on a new routine or two. I'd like to try some things that maybe are in the secret show. I specifically thinking about. It's a nice little PR for people listening. It's like the 60 seat theater. It's just a little black box, essentially as they were referred to it and um, and uh, raked three tier 60 seats. It's just wonderful. And it's an ideal place to try a couple of like the attrical things or a couple of corporate-y things or a couple of key. It's great. So if I were to like have the time and attention, I would try to work on something that was maybe a new opener that I could be adding to my S crew stuff because I don't, uh, I don't want to mess with a product that's working so well until I've got another product.


I can slide in and out relatively easy. So that's my ambition is I'd like to focus on a new opener and I don't know how long it's gonna take to get that new opener, but three minutes is what I'm, I'm aiming for. Do you have any idea of what kind of, Oh, see, it's so tough because like I'm it, you really have to establish a tone on your opener. So there's a lot of effort that goes into an over is the most stressful and in my opinion, um, effort that you put into the show because if you win them over you can really do anything after that. It doesn't really matter. And an open an opener takes it. Mine's taken me five years to get my health and I think I like it a lot right now. Yes. Well, and so my approach is a couple of like two different folds.


I want to actually create a piece that I can do more, um, without technology. And I also want to, the opener that I currently have, which is unique. I had been doing that for 10 years. I can definitely change that to have way more impact, um, and be more appropriate to the person and the character that I am now, I just haven't on the ship. It's really tough because a lot of the technology is so is advanced, but there was, the video is sort of neglected for a while. So I walk on and control most of my video with the laptop as we've discussed many, many, many times. But in my stage theater show, I have too many layers of videos, so I have to pass off stuff and that technology, believe it or not, you'll know this cause you before you're curling days, you also, I believe or in television, but they only accepted like pretty much an Avi file, like a rock.


So I would hand them a five gig file, they'd have to transfer over if just for my opening. So, um, yeah, there's things, technology has improved a little bit and I, I look forward to embracing that in the show in my own way, uh, as well. So I have real high expectations, but I'm really just starting with, with an opener is where I'd like to start. Now you have, um, do you, would you say you have two shows? Nah. Well, I'd say I've like my, I'm just, I feel like all I am is a theater guy. I really do because that's the, my, it's all a 20 years has been theater. I had corporate, I mailed the show to corporate and it works really, really great. But if you're a race car driver, you don't say, or an awesome horse horse racer, it's a track.


Yes, it's attract, but it's not the same vehicle. You also do you have a hip no-show too. Yeah. And that's, that I, I enjoy greatly because it's, it's such a scripted thing. Do you add updates to it or change that or no, I don't mess with it now on the ship. I mean, I have improv moment. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But um, yeah, that's, I really enjoyed the hypnosis show. That was one of my favorite things to perform on tour. It would be two hours. Plus I enjoyed watching Paul, you know, for, I studied under several couple of tube different people. Paul took me on the road right out of a, basically a high school and gave me this opportunity to do these great tours. And in the interim, I would also do tech his show. And so I got to see like six, seven, eight, 900 of these, maybe all my, maybe 2000, I dunno, these hypnosis shows and sort of at the same time whenever you're learning, you're also like w w what would you do differently at the same time?


So, and then I bumped into Dan summers who's just an incredible, uh, illusion designer with a lot of this stuff in my show is from Dan and Dan and I have like these two similar paths. Um, and the world people listening, um, Danielle summer's just vented. Compressed is his most famous one. That's where the girl gets into the girl or guy doesn't matter, gets into the cabinet and uh, basically a roller shade covers from there below their neck to do the bottom of the cabinet. You see their feet stick out and then those two head and feet come together in the middle and they compressed the illusion is called compressed. Yeah. Yeah. And it's been performed on, you know, by everybody and everywhere around the world. And it can be television, newscasters in that thing. It's just, it's great. You've, everybody has seen it. And that original version is Dan summers, Daniel Summers and his, all of his stuff is really original and he's come up with some really great stuff.


So he also does hypnosis. Uh, and so he literally, you know, gave me gifted me his show. Oh wow. In, in of course a as an artist. I took bits and pieces of everybody's influence influencing eight of my own, but the, his opening script out of pure terror hasn't really changed much because of the, how important the opening is of anything. So I've added a couple punctuation things in there on my own and made it my own, of course. But I'm sure if you overlaid over top with, with his total permission or they, they have very, very, very similar. Yeah. Well except now I'm more lazy and it's way shorter, I'm sure. Yeah. So yeah, I understand the pressures of like, we all understand how important that opening is. How, yeah. That's, what do you think?


Ryan Joyce: Yeah. Cause I was asking you about how many shows you have, you have to kinda shows, but it sounds like hip. No, you like the structure of it. For me, I kind of have three shows. Yup. I have a family act and I have a like a comedy club corporate act and I have a, my closeup magic act, which is like a strolling situation or it can also be a CIT. A really versatile at whole thing blows up. I'm totally cool if that's like, that'd be like my hypnosis world. I've done that. I've done that forever since I was, I dunno, 15 or, or younger, I guess they at least professionally and restaurants for sure. I've been in restaurants for that long. Yup. And then the family act, I'm so done with it. I've been doing that for the same amount of time. It, most of it.


I've P I've even sold a bunch of the tricks. I don't even do them anymore by, there's still pieces in there that I just got to get rid of. So that's why I really want to rewrite that whole thing and make the character similar to my, um, comedy club character, but have this offshoot that's fine for a fam. It's gonna I'm trying to work on that weird. It's a whole universe that I'm creating I guess of this wizard thing, but that's the two shows and I really want to update my standup corporate act as well. Uh, which I do at the comedy clubs and things too. But um, it's also tired material. It's the material that I started doing my standup career with. So I think it all needs an update and I want to kind of create more unique pieces to mean as well.


And also things I've been doing a lot of, um, nineties reference bits a lot. I want to try to remove those things so that my pieces are more universal and maybe I could then take the tape and go on something like Penn and teller fool us or something and not be hindered with the fact that there's a John Seena reference here. There's comic book references or there's movie and TV references all over the place that you can't say. Um, so that's fine. But I also really enjoy it. This is just more marketable. Is that the, that's kinda the key. Yeah. Yup. So going on a broader sense, even with the whole wizard thing, removing Harry Potter terms by keeping the concepts there. Yup. So maybe possibly just, I'm remixing some of the words that they would use in Harry Potter. So it sounds similar but different. Yup. Uh, is where I'm going to kind of head with all this stuff.


And then with the show too, I'm looking at, because I'm a wizard, what's the wizard abilities? Um, so it's going to be, you know, make something float, uh, an animal thing. Like we kind of, it Patronis thing. Uh, I had this unique idea for the opening is how do you become a wizard? Like, how do you find the place, and I think I talked to this, but you have random objects like I dunno, a bag of chips and stuff and you would do like a flash appearance of basically a newspaper, but it's like a wizard newspaper and it shows you the directions to the Hogwarts or it's like a map to Hogwarts or something like, or a Hogwarts type place.


Graeme Reed: I can't help but think immediately about this idea. I don't know who to credit this, but I thought it was brilliant with kids putting those little, um, basically you could put like a little purple dot on the floor that they stand on. You could call it a portal or whatever, but it's like gives them one place to stand and so they don't owe on the dog or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you can call it anything wizardly you could be a star, you know, like, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've seen, I know what you're talking about. That is a great thing too, for kids to have them stand on something. Yeah, no, that's okay. This is a target, a target. See it's all about those targets. You need those damn targets. I mean, if you're currently, if you're competitive curler and you have no set goals, how are you going to compete?


How are you going to compete? We've got to get those badges for your jacket. Stitch 'em down the sleeve is, that's the only bachelor's I got was from Scouts. Oh yeah, yeah. On this sash and such. What's the, when I was an aggressive one, I wanted to have the uh, relax them all me. Yeah. Yup. That's fun. The only ones, I only literally have curling badges and maybe a swimming class one. When did you start? What age? Curdling yup. Uh, wow. Let me think. Maybe 11 or 12 I see. Yep. I see. It's very icy ice.


Oh, Zam. I, so I think that's kind of where I'm at with when it comes to rewriting and kind of recreate my shows here at the start of the year. It'll be interesting to see where we're at the end of the year after doing this creation and things like can we hope everybody follows along with us and will keep us in your Scouts and your S your your scopes and your bonds fields and your targets and your keep your calligraphy pens failed with ink and send us magicians talking to magic. Yeah, make sure you follow us at Magicians Talking magic follow Ryan at Ryan Joyce magic follow me at graemazing that G. R A. E. M. A. Z. I. N. G. let us know who you follow and on our Magicians Talking Magic Instagram page from the beginning of our talk here today, us know who you follow and don't be afraid to send us any message. Probably on the Instagram is the best way to get ahold of us. I think our email's on there too. It's magicians talking magic@gmail.com but send us an email, send us a message if you have any questions, if you want to see different content on here. We are hoping to release more interviews throughout the year. We have big plans for 2020 it's going to be great.


Ryan Joyce: Thank you for being here with us on this episode. I'm, my name is Ryan Joyce.


Graeme Reed: My name is Graemazing.


Ryan Joyce: Shablazam


Graeme Reed: TaDoozle



Thanks for listening to Magicians Talking Magic Podcast


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